6 on the Court -- unnoticed...

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

You're right Raymond. Now we finally have it directly from the horse's mouth (below).

From the IAABO Sportorials November/December 2017 issue, article entitled Rules Interpretations and Clarifications from NFHS In-Person Meeting (with Theresia Wynns, NFHS Basketball Rules Editor):

More than five players on the court not observed by officials:
- If Team A has more than five players on the court during a live
ball and the officials do not realize it, should the officials charge
Team A with a technical foul if the scorer notifies officials of the
infraction during the next dead ball period? Answer: No. An
on-court official must observe the excess number of players on
the court during a live ball and a team having more than five
players on the court during a live ball shall be penalized only if
the infraction is discovered while being violated.

An interpretation directly from from Ms. Wynns, the NFHS Grand Poobah, should put this issue to rest. Right?

If I can deduce(big word) that there were 6 on floor without taking scorer word for it I will penalize. I do not have to see it while ball is "live." Example, 6 on floor and we are oblivious. Horn sounded. Ball dead(no shot in air) if I see 6 I at that moment I will penalize. I don't think I have to discover it "while ball live." But I have to know personally that there were 6 while ball was live.

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by BigCat

If I can deduce(big word) that there were 6 on floor without taking scorer word for it I will penalize. I do not have to see it while ball is "live." Example, 6 on floor and we are oblivious. Horn sounded. Ball dead(no shot in air) if I see 6 I at that moment I will penalize. I don't think I have to discover it "while ball live." But I have to know personally that there were 6 while ball was live.

I don't have the book in front of me, but doesn't it say it has to be discovered while the ball is live? Not if you have definite knowledge.

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[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I don't have the book in front of me, but doesn't it say it has to be discovered while the ball is live? Not if you have definite knowledge.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

It says team technical for having more than 5 players participating simultaneously. Down further, "penalized if discovered while being violated." The interpretation billy put up said an official had to observe while the ball is live.

Hopefully, it never happens to any of us but...say you have 6 players on the court for one team and the horn sounds because the officials are clueless. Officials kill the play (ball becomes dead) officials then see 6 on the court. They know nobody ran onto the floor after the ball was dead....and they're 6 players from one team still out there. You can figure out 6 participated simultaneously without taking anybody's word for it because.... they are still there. I would penalize.

Again, hope it never happens. Just quibbling with Billy's interpretation. Moral- count players

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by BigCat

If I can deduce(big word) that there were 6 on floor without taking scorer word for it I will penalize. I do not have to see it while ball is "live." Example, 6 on floor and we are oblivious. Horn sounded. Ball dead(no shot in air) if I see 6 I at that moment I will penalize. I don't think I have to discover it "while ball live." But I have to know personally that there were 6 while ball was live.

This is called not following the rules and making up your own.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is called not following the rules and making up your own.

I suppose it might be but in this limited situation when 6 are still standing there id probably still penalize. I just wont let it happen...so i dont have to...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is called not following the rules and making up your own.

While the rule itself may not be as clear as we'd like it (definition of participate), Ms. Wynns interpretation (on court official must observe excess number of players on the court, during a live ball, penalized only if discovered while being violated) seems to be as clear as a bell. And I know not of a higher NFHS interpretative authority.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

While the rule itself may not be as clear as we'd like it (definition of participate), Ms. Wynns interpretation (on court official must observe excess number of players on the court, during a live ball, penalized only if discovered while being violated) seems to be a clear as a bell. And I know not of a higher NFHS interpretative authority.

Yeah, you're right. I suppose if i let 6 players on the court and i cant figure it out without the scorer/timer getting me to stop the game and telling me.....then i probably deserve what happens next.... tell the opposing coach "i see 6 now...but i didnt then...so i cant penalize...". just dont let it happen..

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

... after the ball was dead....and they're 6 players from one team still out there ... they are still there. I would penalize.

And according to Theresia Wynns, NFHS Basketball Rules Editor, you would be 100% wrong.

Originally Posted by BigCat

"I see 6 now...but I didnt then...so I can't penalize...".

And according to Theresia Wynns, NFHS Basketball Rules Editor, you would be 100% correct.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And according to Theresia Wynns, NFHS Basketball Rules Editor, you would be 100% wrong.



And according to Theresia Wynns, NFHS Basketball Rules Editor, you would be 100% correct.

I acknowledged this in my previous post...but thx for pointing it out again..

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I acknowledged this in my previous post...but thx for pointing it out again.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And according to Theresia Wynns, NFHS Basketball Rules Editor, you would be 100% correct.

Nothing wrong with being 100% correct. Embrace it.