6 on the Court -- unnoticed...

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

I think BigCat is seeing the intention of the rule, but the wording is bad and can be interpreted how BillyMac is saying.

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I'm stretching it in this limited circumstance... so just dont let it happen....

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

This is called not following the rules and making up your own.

While the rule itself may not be as clear as we'd like it (definition of participate), Ms. Wynns interpretation (on court official must observe excess number of players on the court, during a live ball, penalized only if discovered while being violated) seems to be as clear as a bell. And I know not of a higher NFHS interpretative authority.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

While the rule itself may not be as clear as we'd like it (definition of participate), Ms. Wynns interpretation (on court official must observe excess number of players on the court, during a live ball, penalized only if discovered while being violated) seems to be a clear as a bell. And I know not of a higher NFHS interpretative authority.

Yeah, you're right. I suppose if i let 6 players on the court and i cant figure it out without the scorer/timer getting me to stop the game and telling me.....then i probably deserve what happens next.... tell the opposing coach "i see 6 now...but i didnt then...so i cant penalize...". just dont let it happen..

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

... after the ball was dead....and they're 6 players from one team still out there ... they are still there. I would penalize.

And according to Theresia Wynns, NFHS Basketball Rules Editor, you would be 100% wrong.

Originally Posted by BigCat

"I see 6 now...but I didnt then...so I can't penalize...".

And according to Theresia Wynns, NFHS Basketball Rules Editor, you would be 100% correct.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And according to Theresia Wynns, NFHS Basketball Rules Editor, you would be 100% wrong.



And according to Theresia Wynns, NFHS Basketball Rules Editor, you would be 100% correct.

I acknowledged this in my previous post...but thx for pointing it out again..

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I acknowledged this in my previous post...but thx for pointing it out again.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

And according to Theresia Wynns, NFHS Basketball Rules Editor, you would be 100% correct.

Nothing wrong with being 100% correct. Embrace it.

[bob jenkins]

I hope that she puts the (wrong*, imo) interp someplace a little more official than "an interview in the IAABO sportorial"

* -- wrong, because a player can participate while the ball is dead after a made basket. Maybe it should be "while the ball is live or while the clock is (properly) running"

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I hope that she puts the (wrong*, imo) interp someplace a little more official than "an interview in the IAABO sportorial"

This is about as bad as her sending an email response to a person and not addressing the issue that is being actually asked. Then putting no such interpretation out to back up that statement.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jerkins

Maybe it should be while the ball is live or while the clock is (properly) running

That was my opinion way back at the beginning of this thread. At least we've got a NFHS interpretation, from no less than the head honcho, to put some form of closure to this debate. Some of us may not like the interpretation, but at least we have one.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

That was my opinion way back at the beginning of this thread. At least we've got a NFHS interpretation, from no less than the head honcho, to put some form of closure to this debate. Some of us may not like the interpretation, but at least we have one.

No. She's wrong. You say stupid nfhs in so many places and want to accept this. Made basket, ball dead clock running.. player is participating. I'm guessing she was asked a question about 6 on floor, then one sneaks off, ball becomes dead with officials being clueless. Scorer tells them. Can't penalize there. She made a generalized statement which was too broad.

And Nevada rationalized it earlier citing the provision that a player who enters doesn't participate until ball becomes live. That is true. But once it does that player is participating even when made basket/ball dead. He isn't a participant and then cease to be every dead ball. Equally wrong.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

She's wrong ... and (you) want to accept this.

I do not want to accept this (I lead the charge to expand the definition of participate), but until a new interpretation comes from the NFHS, it's the only choice I have, other than offer my own opinion, or to listen to opinions of other officials, but in both cases they're just opinions, opinions based on ambiguous rules, based on a nonexistent definition of participate.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Maybe it should be "while the ball is live or while the clock is (properly) running"

So there would be a difference between the charging of the technical foul during the dead ball period immediately following the scoring of a successful field goal, and the dead ball period immediately following the scoring of a successful free throw?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So there would be a difference between the charging of the technical foul during the dead ball period immediately following the scoring of a successful field goal, and the dead ball period immediately following the scoring of a successful free throw?

Good point.

How about (and with just as little thought as before) "A player does not begin to participate until the ball is live. A player continues to participate until earliest of: (a) the ball becomes live after the player leaves the court (is replaced or sits on the bench), or (b) or the period ends and multiple players from either team have entered or left the court, or (c) a granted time out is reported to the table and the time out timer has (or should have) begun."

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

How about "A player does not begin to participate until the ball is live. A player continues to participate until ...

Finish it anyway you want. Anything is better the definition of participating that we now have, which is nothing, zero, diddly squat, goose egg, zip, zilch, zippo, nill, naught ...

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

So there would be a difference between the charging of the technical foul during the dead ball period immediately following the scoring of a successful field goal, and the dead ball period immediately following the scoring of a successful free throw?

On a side note, some states have mercy rules whereby the clock is properly running during a dead ball.