6 on the Court -- unnoticed...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

The definition of "disqualified" does not equal the coach being informed. Being "officially disqualified" involves the coach being informed.

I'm not sure what the difference is?

4-14-2: A player is officially disqualified and becomes bench personnel
when the coach is notified by an official.

Originally Posted by bucky

... if the coach was informed, then it could be considered a deliberate attempt to circumvent the rules and a technical foul would be warranted ...

Originally Posted by BillyMac

10.5.3 SITUATION ... unless the official deemed it was a deliberate attempt to circumvent the rules.

How does an official "deem" this? Coaches aren't perfect and occasionally make honest mistakes. Good question for another thread.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I'm not sure what the difference is?

4-14-2: A player is officially disqualified and becomes bench personnel
when the coach is notified by an official.

NFHS created 2 parts so only they would know.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

How does an official "deem" this? Coaches aren't perfect and occasionally make honest mistakes. Good question for another thread.

Not sure as all people are different. You as an official have to determine the honesty of the mistake. I am only responding to the case whereby the extra player was DQ and it is a live/dead/live ball. If kid/table/coach were notified, and extra player was discovered on court during a dead ball in the live/dead/live case, it could easily be deemed by an official to be deliberate by the coach. It could be deemed this by process of elimination (IOW, what else could it be?) and, perhaps more importantly, can be used, by rule, as the means to assessing a T during this "strange" dead ball period that has been discussed. An official would not even have to give the reason for the T. Everyone, including the coach (unless the coach had read this thread and was a very experienced official) would understand (or at least think) that the T was for having an extra player on the floor. No one would say a word about not being able to give the T because it is a dead ball. And, that one official who read this thread, would also not be able to question it because he/she would now be familiar with the rule regarding the deliberate attempt to circumvent the rules. Let's go one step further and pretend, hypothetically, that there was another official(he/she did not read this thread) on the planet that questioned giving the T during that dead ball period. You could look like a rule God and explain that you deemed that the coach was deliberately circumventing (use those words to accentuate your God-like knowledge) the rules and ergo, the T was allowed during the dead ball.

Can't believe I did it again. Another fine for too many words coming my way. Sheesh.

[BigT]

Maybe I am making this too simple. Wouldn't it be better if the coach or table says there is 6 players to stop count both teams and then blow the whistle and call the T? Why are we blowing our whistle because the coach is counting and then counting and saying coach I cant call the T cuz I decided to count after my whistle rather than before my whistle...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigT

... if the coach or table says there is 6 players to stop count both teams and then blow the whistle and call the T?

Absolutely a great, and simple, interpretation, kind of like Occam's razor. But there are some more complex situations, many are quite rare, but they can occur.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

An official would not even have to give the reason for the T.

There's got to be a reason, either unsporting, or disqualified player in the game.

10-4-1: Bench personnel, including the head coach, shall not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as yadah yadah yadah ...

As with other parts of 10.5.3 SITUATION, the NFHS is unclear as to what type of technical foul to give pre-live ball for a coach deliberately attempting to circumvent the rules by sending in a disqualified player.

I'm guessing unsporting.

Stupid NFHS rules editors. Stupid 10.5.3 SITUATION.