Held Ball Signal

[Rich]

A held ball isn't a violation.

Originally Posted by bucky

I never really understood the stop clock signal (open hand in air). What is the purpose? And if the response if "to stop the clock" well then what is the purpose of the whistle? The whistle is enough.

Furthermore, what is purpose of fist in air for fouls? I think, yes extreme minority I know, that there is no need for any hand/arm in the air at all. Just whistle, followed by mechanic and any necessary verbal info.

Is that a super ridiculous idea?

I think the NBA has it right. Fist for all fouls, simply whistle and point for OOB. The whistle is enough at the D1 and NBA level, but they use Precision Timing. I don't mind the "stop clock" signal being required at the HS and small college level just in case, but I too think it is superflous.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

The stop clock signal is specifically designed for, yes you guessed it, the clock operator.

If it was a single signal, I could agree with you, but it's three different signals, closed fist, open hand, or thumbs up. These three "stop clock" signals also tell everyone; partners, players, coaches, fans, table, police officer in the corner, ladies in the concession stand; what type of call is about to be made, a foul, a violation, or a held ball.

Coaches, and fans, need this extra split second to decide whether, or not, to get ready to lay into us for a missed call against them.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

If it was a single signal, I could agree with you, but it's three different signals, closed fist, open hand, or thumbs up. These three "stop clock" signals also tell everyone; partners, players, coaches, fans, table, police officer in the corner, ladies in the concession stand; what type of call is about to be made, a foul, a violation, or a held ball.

Coaches, and fans, need this extra split second to decide whether, or not, to get ready to lay into us for a missed call against them.

Lol, yea suppose so but the ensuing mechanic does all that and a whistle tells all of those same people that a call is about to be made. Not sure why telling them the type that is coming matters.

Ex. A1 travels = whistle, travel mechanic
Ex. B2 fouls = whistle, foul mechanic (hold, push, etc.) (I also believe that doing the foul mechanic at the table is redundant/unecessary. Do at either spot or table, not both.)

Ex3. A1/B2 have held ball = whistle, held ball mechanic

OK, I am done with this topic. I did not mean to derail the thread. Everyone makes good points. I will continue to shove an arm in the air.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bucky

Why were you looking at him? Weren't you watching your area? If you had a whistle and did not hear his, what would make you stop providing a mechanic? (just kidding about the 2nd question)

Seriously, whistles/mechanics are about communication, nothing more. Whistles involve our sense of hearing while mechanics involve our sense of sight. What is purpose of doing both simultaneously? (blarges and other contradictory signals can't be avoided using either method)

I do not know about you, but there is this thing called peripheral vision that helps you see many things at once. It is the case you can watch something directly and see something else in another part of your vision. If you could not do this, you probably could not drive or look at a movie very well or officiate with much knowledge as well.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not know about you, but there is this thing called peripheral vision that helps you see many things at once.

[CJP]

As a newer official, all I have ever known is to signal to stop the clock with the open hand first then go to the thumbs. The first year I officiated, local association head officials made this a point of emphasis for everyone. I never read into it so I didn't know any better. This past year I moved and all of my partners went straight to the thumbs. Yes, there were double whistles, I don't recall a time where we had conflicting calls though but the potential is there. After discussing this with my new partners, a couple of them agreed that it made more sense to go with an open hand first. For me, it is a habit - either an open hand or fist on a whistle and I may never break that habit.

[frezer11]

If I have a jump ball, I hit the whistle more than once. One of the few times that I'll tweet about 3 in a row while I close down. I don't show any signal until I've closed down sufficiently, and then give the thumbs up.

The reason I (and others that I frequently work with) have adopted this system, is that it stops play, and doesn't create a differing calls situation. Especially in a competitive boys game, I think the most important thing is to get them to stop before competition and testosterone gets the best of them, and we have an elbow or something fly. So by hitting the whistle quick and multiple times, this seems to decrease any extracurricular activity we might have. Closing down is self-explanatory, but the delayed signal then also allows a partner who may have had a foul or travel prior to the jump ball come in and make their call as the only signaling official.

It has worked very well for us over the past couple years, and other than the mechanic book saying to go straight to the thumbs, I can't really think of a negative to doing it this way.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by frezer11

If I have a jump ball, I hit the whistle more than once. One of the few times that I'll tweet about 3 in a row while I close down. I don't show any signal until I've closed down sufficiently, and then give the thumbs up.

The reason I (and others that I frequently work with) have adopted this system, is that it stops play, and doesn't create a differing calls situation. Especially in a competitive boys game, I think the most important thing is to get them to stop before competition and testosterone gets the best of them, and we have an elbow or something fly. So by hitting the whistle quick and multiple times, this seems to decrease any extracurricular activity we might have. Closing down is self-explanatory, but the delayed signal then also allows a partner who may have had a foul or travel prior to the jump ball come in and make their call as the only signaling official.

It has worked very well for us over the past couple years, and other than the mechanic book saying to go straight to the thumbs, I can't really think of a negative to doing it this way.

That's what we do. Thanks for writing this more clearly than me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

I never really understood the stop clock signal ... The whistle is enough.

Granted, it does seem a little bit redundant. Back when I was coaching middle school basketball, we didn't have adults for timekeepers, and scorekeepers. We used students, and it was my job to teach them. The easiest thing to teach? "Stop the clock every time you hear a whistle". Nothing about open hand, closed fist, etc. just, "Stop the clock every time you hear a whistle". Of course, teaching when to start the clock was a little more complicated, but for stopping the clock, "Stop the clock every time you hear a whistle", worked well enough for middle school games.

Going back to the ancient days of NFHS (or whatever) mechanics, there must have been a pretty good reason for the three different stop the clock signals (fouls, violations, held (jump balls back then) balls). I wonder what that reason was? Maybe, the more information communicated to everybody the better? Or, maybe it was considered to be some type of preliminary signal, like we all do for fouls (of course for fouls it would be a preliminary signal to the second preliminary signal)?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bucky

I never really understood the stop clock signal (open hand in air). What is the purpose? And if the response if "to stop the clock" well then what is the purpose of the whistle? The whistle is enough.

Whistles occasionally failed to sound? (The motivation for the inventor of the Fox 40)

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Going back to the ancient days of NFHS (or whatever) mechanics, there must have been a pretty good reason for the three stop the clock signals (fouls, violations, held (jump balls back then) balls). I wonder what that reason was? Maybe, the more information communicated the better?

My guess is that the initial signal set didn't necessarily indicate the nature of the infraction with a 2nd signal but that the fist/open hand was the entire signal.

[Adam]

1. There are some games where a whistle can't be easily heard.
2. It also tells everyone which official made a call.
3. The hand/fist tells your partner(s) what your about to call. This comes in handy on a DW.

It really isn't more complicated than that, IMO.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Adam

1. There are some games where a whistle can't be easily heard.
2. It also tells everyone which official made a call.
3. The hand/fist tells your partner(s) what your about to call. This comes in handy on a DW.

Bingo.

Now we can finally put this to bed for good. "Say goodnight, Gracie".

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Whistles occasionally failed to sound?

Originally Posted by Adam

There are some games where a whistle can't be easily heard.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I not only owned that whistle once upon a time, but had the pea get stuck . . . beyond getting stuck, on some of those whistles it was sometimes possible to blow a deteriorated pea completely out of the hole . . .