Held Ball Signal

[Rich]

Most know what the book says. Personally I prefer the whistle and no signal till it's clear none of tne 3 are coming in with a foul or violation. A couple of tweets, we look, we signal a second or two later, and the official facing the arrow signals direction. After all, the whistle stops the clock....or should immediately.

[JRutledge]

The problem with using the "stop clock" signal instead of the "held ball" signal is it looks like you are calling something else and then go with the held ball. I do not like it. And if you have a dueling signal, then you go with what happened first. We make the simple things so complicated some times.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... And if you have a dueling signal, then you go with what happened first. We make the simple things so complicated some times.

Agree. At least once, or twice, each season I'm involved with different signals with one official showing the held ball signal. It's real easy to get together to discuss it. "I saw your held ball, but my foul came before the held ball". Or, "I saw your foul, but my held ball came before the foul".

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. At least once, or twice, each season I'm involved with different signals with one official showing the held ball signal. It's real easy to get together to discuss it. "I saw your held ball, but my foul came before the held ball". Or, "I saw your foul, but my held ball came before the foul".

And it's just as easy to do what's mentioned above and not have to have the conversation at all. Shrug.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

And it's just as easy to do what's mentioned above and not have to have the conversation at all.

Eye contact (and body language) can go a long way, it's, literally, a part of every pregame (sometimes it's the only part) I've been involved with over the past thirty-six years, but sometimes you just have to converse.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

And it's just as easy to do what's mentioned above and not have to have the conversation at all. Shrug.

I have seen officials do just what you said and it was clear by other body language they were thinking through what they were going to call. If you give one signal, there is no question why you are blowing the whistle. When you give two signals that are associated with two different possible calls, the people watching think you are unsure. Part of our job is to look like we know what we are doing. And not everyone can see or know what you were thinking. But they do see the signal you gave and if it is one signal, there is little doubt.

Peace

[bucky]

A bit off topic but...

I never really understood the stop clock signal (open hand in air). What is the purpose? And if the response if "to stop the clock" well then what is the purpose of the whistle? The whistle is enough.

Furthermore, what is purpose of fist in air for fouls? I think, yes extreme minority I know, that there is no need for any hand/arm in the air at all. Just whistle, followed by mechanic and any necessary verbal info.

Is that a super ridiculous idea?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Is that a super ridiculous idea?

Why give any signals at all? Sound the whistle and then hand the ball to an inbounder, or bounce it to a free throw shooter. Really? Who else needs to know other than the official? Keep 'em guessing.

Maverick: It's classified. I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bucky

A bit off topic but...

I never really understood the stop clock signal (open hand in air). What is the purpose? And if the response if "to stop the clock" well then what is the purpose of the whistle? The whistle is enough.

Furthermore, what is purpose of fist in air for fouls? I think, yes extreme minority I know, that there is no need for any hand/arm in the air at all. Just whistle, followed by mechanic and any necessary verbal info.

Is that a super ridiculous idea?

More than once I have not heard my partner's (double) whistle, but I've seen his had up -- and that avoided a blarge.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

More than once I have not heard my partner's (double) whistle

I hate it when that happens (usually in a raucous gymnasium). In any possible blocking foul / player control foul, situations, holding my preliminary signal has kept me out of a lot of blarge situations. Someday, and I know that it's eventually going to happen, in my haste, and my partner's haste, to sell our calls with strong preliminary signals, we will eventually have to deal with a double whistle blarge.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

More than once I have not heard my partner's (double) whistle, but I've seen his had up -- and that avoided a blarge.

Why were you looking at him? Weren't you watching your area? If you had a whistle and did not hear his, what would make you stop providing a mechanic? (just kidding about the 2nd question)

Seriously, whistles/mechanics are about communication, nothing more. Whistles involve our sense of hearing while mechanics involve our sense of sight. What is purpose of doing both simultaneously? (blarges and other contradictory signals can't be avoided using either method)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Whistles involve our sense of hearing while mechanics involve our sense of sight. What is purpose of doing both simultaneously?

As a service to the hearing impaired and the visually impaired?

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As a service to the hearing impaired and the visually impaired?

The stop clock signal is specifically designed for, yes you guessed it, the clock operator. I have never seen a visually impaired clock operator. If one was hearing impaired, they would be watching the action until it stopped, at which point they would see the mechanic, if quick enough to pick up the ref, and understand what happened. Only players/sub need to hear whistles. It communicates to others of course but generally speaking the whistle simply means "look at me".

If someone was visually impaired, why would they be watching? And if they are watching, they are listening to the announcers to understand what happened.

People infrequently look at the actual hand (fist/open) in the air. Just stop and think what harm would occur if we did not put an arm in the air during a whistle. Maybe I am missing something glaringly obvious but I can't think of any and it would be one last thing we have to do while officiating. Happens all the time in the NBA and there does not seem to be any problem, especially with communication.

And the blarge double whistle was mentioned. Good point..kinda. During a blarge, aren't you looking to your partner anyway? Just like a blarge with arms in the air where you immediately communicate to one another who is taking the call, do the same. Only difference is you do not have your arms in the air. I can live with it, just don't think it is entirely necessary. That is a foul situation with fist in the air. Let's eliminate the hand in the air for everything else. It will help my distal clavicle osteolysis.

(by "impaired" I mean not having the sense)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

... the whistle simply means "look at me".

... "I'm stopping the clock with a signal that will hint at what I'm about to call, and then I'll give a signal that will tell everybody exactly what happened".

We have a few college officials working high school games who simply point the direction without an open hand stop the clock signal on out of bounds violations. It's only a minor point, not really a big deal, but they are still encouraged to stop doing it, to set good examples for the younger up and coming officials who must eventually learn correct IAABO high school mechanics.

Note: The "hearing impaired and the visually impaired" post was supposed to be facetious.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

The stop clock signal is specifically designed for, yes you guessed it, the clock operator.

If it was a single signal, I could agree with you, but it's three different signals, closed fist, open hand, or thumbs up. These three "stop clock" signals also tell everyone; partners, players, coaches, fans, table, police officer in the corner, ladies in the concession stand; what type of call is about to be made, a foul, a violation, or a held ball.

Coaches, and fans, need this extra split second to decide whether, or not, to get ready to lay into us for a missed call against them.