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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 08:53am
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Jump ball held ball plus injury.

What happens if on a jump ball, A2 and B2 tie up a ball for a held ball call and A1 is injured in the scrum. Who jumps?
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 08:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
What happens if on a jump ball, A2 and B2 tie up a ball for a held ball call and A1 is injured in the scrum. Who jumps?
I assume you mean A2 was injured? And that this was during the jump ball to start the game and no alternating possession had been established yet?

Team B's coach gets to choose the shortest player on Team A to replace A2 and he will be the jumper.

In all seriousness, I am going to have A6, the substitute for A2 be the jumper along with B2. Not sure if this is addressed anywhere in the rules, so this is just what makes sense to me.
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 09:11am
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Agree with MathReferee
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 09:13am
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Honestly have to say this is a question I have never thought of before.

In the NBA, which I'm assuming the OP is referencing when he talks about a held ball situation, I would think the substitute would have to jump since it has to be the two players who were involved.

If we are talking NFHS or NCAA I don't know why we wouldn't let the coach put in a sub and have whoever he wanted be the new jumper.
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 09:28am
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Originally Posted by VaTerp View Post
If we are talking NFHS or NCAA I don't know why we wouldn't let the coach put in a sub and have whoever he wanted be the new jumper.
Absent the injury, in NFHS the two players involved have to jump. That's why I'd have the sub jump.

Absent the injury in NCAAW, any two players can jump. So, any two players can jump after the injury.
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 09:36am
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Absent the injury, in NFHS the two players involved have to jump. That's why I'd have the sub jump.

Absent the injury in NCAAW, any two players can jump. So, any two players can jump after the injury.
Agreed. In NFHS, the rule doesn't address the situation, but there is precedent to determine their intent. That precedent is with free throws, and it's clear they want the sub to shoot. I'm going that route and having the sub jump.
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 09:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Absent the injury, in NFHS the two players involved have to jump. That's why I'd have the sub jump.
That make sense.

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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Agreed. In NFHS, the rule doesn't address the situation, but there is precedent to determine their intent. That precedent is with free throws, and it's clear they want the sub to shoot. I'm going that route and having the sub jump.
I disagree that substitutes for an injured free throw shooter is precedent here. I can agree with what Bob is saying in that absent the injury, NFHS would require the two original jumpers to jump again.

I don't think the FT situation is analogous.
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 09:58am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaTerp View Post
That make sense.



I disagree that substitutes for an injured free throw shooter is precedent here. I can agree with what Bob is saying in that absent the injury, NFHS would require the two original jumpers to jump again.
I don't think the FT situation is analogous.
I do not know NCAAW, but for NFHS the 2 involved in the held ball situation will be the new jumpers. So if one of them is injured I would say the substitute would be the jumper.
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 10:11am
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This specific play I am looking for the HS ruling. So far we just have opinions but no rules backing. Anyone care to venture?
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 10:26am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharpshooternes View Post
This specific play I am looking for the HS ruling. So far we just have opinions but no rules backing. Anyone care to venture?
There is no coverage for this (that any of us are aware of -- and I did look in the Rules By Topic, which includes Case Plays), so I'm not sure what you're looking for.

I'd make the sub jump.
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 10:34am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaTerp View Post
That make sense.



I disagree that substitutes for an injured free throw shooter is precedent here. I can agree with what Bob is saying in that absent the injury, NFHS would require the two original jumpers to jump again.

I don't think the FT situation is analogous.
It's the closest thing we have to insight into the NFSH intent. The only other thing in the game where a specific player is required to do something is shooting free throws, so I'd follow that concept. Just my thought process: no one is obliged to follow it.

That said, you can go with 2-3 if you want. Honestly, since it's not covered by rule, I'd have a hard time telling anyone their wrong if they came to the other conclusion (allowing anyone to jump). Most of us won't have more than a handful of held balls on the opening tip anyway; the odds of one of those 5 situations involving an injury are infinitely small.
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 10:46am
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Huh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by VaTerp View Post
I can agree with what Bob is saying in that absent the injury, NFHS would require the two original jumpers to jump again.
'Tis the season for skating on thin ice . . .
7-3-2.
Though I'd never want to be construed as speaking for Bob who is right.
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 10:55am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
It's the closest thing we have to insight into the NFSH intent. The only other thing in the game where a specific player is required to do something is shooting free throws, so I'd follow that concept. Just my thought process: no one is obliged to follow it.

That said, you can go with 2-3 if you want. Honestly, since it's not covered by rule, I'd have a hard time telling anyone their wrong if they came to the other conclusion (allowing anyone to jump). Most of us won't have more than a handful of held balls on the opening tip anyway; the odds of one of those 5 situations involving an injury are infinitely small.
Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Freddy View Post
'Tis the season for skating on thin ice . . .
7-3-2.
Though I'd never want to be construed as speaking for Bob who is right.
Good call on 7-3-2. Knew there was a scenario for a jump not involving a retoss of opening tip but didnt remember exactly and don't have my books.

Now I know this given the .001 chance it happens in a game any time soon.
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 11:08am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VaTerp View Post
Fair enough.



Good call on 7-3-2. Knew there was a scenario for a jump not involving a retoss of opening tip but didnt remember exactly and don't have my books.

Now I know this given the .001 chance it happens in a game any time soon.
I've had it happen in the last two years or so. Opening tap never controlled and two players tie it up without team control being established -- it's not *that* rare of a situation.
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Old Tue Dec 31, 2013, 11:14am
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I've had it happen in the last two years or so. Opening tap never controlled and two players tie it up without team control being established -- it's not *that* rare of a situation.
I had 4 one season, but I've never heard of anyone actually having an injury occur on the play.
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