Held Ball Signal

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Rich

And it's just as easy to do what's mentioned above and not have to have the conversation at all.

Eye contact (and body language) can go a long way, it's, literally, a part of every pregame (sometimes it's the only part) I've been involved with over the past thirty-six years, but sometimes you just have to converse.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Rich

And it's just as easy to do what's mentioned above and not have to have the conversation at all. Shrug.

I have seen officials do just what you said and it was clear by other body language they were thinking through what they were going to call. If you give one signal, there is no question why you are blowing the whistle. When you give two signals that are associated with two different possible calls, the people watching think you are unsure. Part of our job is to look like we know what we are doing. And not everyone can see or know what you were thinking. But they do see the signal you gave and if it is one signal, there is little doubt.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Rich

Most know what the book says. Personally I prefer the whistle and no signal till it's clear none of tne 3 are coming in with a foul or violation. A couple of tweets, we look, we signal a second or two later, and the official facing the arrow signals direction. After all, the whistle stops the clock....or should immediately.

This makes it sound like the foul or violation would always take precedence. What if you have a held ball and it happened first?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bucky

A bit off topic but...

I never really understood the stop clock signal (open hand in air). What is the purpose? And if the response if "to stop the clock" well then what is the purpose of the whistle? The whistle is enough.

Furthermore, what is purpose of fist in air for fouls? I think, yes extreme minority I know, that there is no need for any hand/arm in the air at all. Just whistle, followed by mechanic and any necessary verbal info.

Is that a super ridiculous idea?

More than once I have not heard my partner's (double) whistle, but I've seen his had up -- and that avoided a blarge.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

More than once I have not heard my partner's (double) whistle

I hate it when that happens (usually in a raucous gymnasium). In any possible blocking foul / player control foul, situations, holding my preliminary signal has kept me out of a lot of blarge situations. Someday, and I know that it's eventually going to happen, in my haste, and my partner's haste, to sell our calls with strong preliminary signals, we will eventually have to deal with a double whistle blarge.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

More than once I have not heard my partner's (double) whistle, but I've seen his had up -- and that avoided a blarge.

Why were you looking at him? Weren't you watching your area? If you had a whistle and did not hear his, what would make you stop providing a mechanic? (just kidding about the 2nd question)

Seriously, whistles/mechanics are about communication, nothing more. Whistles involve our sense of hearing while mechanics involve our sense of sight. What is purpose of doing both simultaneously? (blarges and other contradictory signals can't be avoided using either method)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Whistles involve our sense of hearing while mechanics involve our sense of sight. What is purpose of doing both simultaneously?

As a service to the hearing impaired and the visually impaired?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bucky

Why were you looking at him? Weren't you watching your area?

Today's quote worth requoting:

You don't have to be looking at something to see it.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As a service to the hearing impaired and the visually impaired?

The stop clock signal is specifically designed for, yes you guessed it, the clock operator. I have never seen a visually impaired clock operator. If one was hearing impaired, they would be watching the action until it stopped, at which point they would see the mechanic, if quick enough to pick up the ref, and understand what happened. Only players/sub need to hear whistles. It communicates to others of course but generally speaking the whistle simply means "look at me".

If someone was visually impaired, why would they be watching? And if they are watching, they are listening to the announcers to understand what happened.

People infrequently look at the actual hand (fist/open) in the air. Just stop and think what harm would occur if we did not put an arm in the air during a whistle. Maybe I am missing something glaringly obvious but I can't think of any and it would be one last thing we have to do while officiating. Happens all the time in the NBA and there does not seem to be any problem, especially with communication.

And the blarge double whistle was mentioned. Good point..kinda. During a blarge, aren't you looking to your partner anyway? Just like a blarge with arms in the air where you immediately communicate to one another who is taking the call, do the same. Only difference is you do not have your arms in the air. I can live with it, just don't think it is entirely necessary. That is a foul situation with fist in the air. Let's eliminate the hand in the air for everything else. It will help my distal clavicle osteolysis.

(by "impaired" I mean not having the sense)

[Rich]

Without a hand/fist up there's no way I'd know I have a double whistle with a partner. The sound of my whistle overwhelms the sound of a partner's whistle.

I see officials work lower level games that blow their whistles then give some non-standard signal to describe what they're calling. Always seems to me they have no clue what's going on amd they're making something up.

[bucky]

Originally Posted by Rich

Without a hand/fist up there's no way I'd know I have a double whistle with a partner. The sound of my whistle overwhelms the sound of a partner's whistle.

I see officials work lower level games that blow their whistles then give some non-standard signal to describe what they're calling. Always seems to me they have no clue what's going on amd they're making something up.

Hmm, so every time you have a whistle(violation/foul), you technically might have a double whistle. That tells me that every time you have to look at your partner. So if he has something, you are talking anyway, the same if you both had an arm in the air. Nothing is different.

I know the idea won't happen, but to me it is simply unnecessary.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

... the whistle simply means "look at me".

... "I'm stopping the clock with a signal that will hint at what I'm about to call, and then I'll give a signal that will tell everybody exactly what happened".

We have a few college officials working high school games who simply point the direction without an open hand stop the clock signal on out of bounds violations. It's only a minor point, not really a big deal, but they are still encouraged to stop doing it, to set good examples for the younger up and coming officials who must eventually learn correct IAABO high school mechanics.

Note: The "hearing impaired and the visually impaired" post was supposed to be facetious.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bucky

Hmm, so every time you have a whistle(violation/foul), you technically might have a double whistle.

Every time? No way. It depends on where in the primary coverage area the play occurs. Black and white? Probably no need to look. Gray area? It might be worth taking a peek.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bucky

Why were you looking at him? Weren't you watching your area? If you had a whistle and did not hear his, what would make you stop providing a mechanic? (just kidding about the 2nd question)

I look at my partner to see if there's something else -- and it helps me slow down so I don't rush through the rest of the calling sequence.

(And, no I don't do it immediately if there's a chance for some extra-curricular activities between those players involved in the play.)

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Anyone know if the CCA manuals directly address this?

Yes, "stopping the clock" with either a fist or open palm is something JD is very anal about.

In the 2016-17 CCA manual JD mentions it specifically in the Q&A section near the front, and again on Page 77: "When an official calls a violation: Simultaneously give a sharp blast of the whistle, stop the clock using straight arm and open hand, then drop the whistle from the mouth."

Interestingly JD isn't a huge fan of two-handed reporting yet it became mandatory last year.