How do your Correct the error

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

I agree that they should have blown their whistles, but even if they didn't, the ball is still dead by rule. Just because they didn't stop B1 from dribbling it down court doesn't make the ball live again.

The officials recognized it immediately thereafter - there was no interim play.

Because it was immediate, I maintain that the best way to handle it is to disallow B1's "goal" and proceed with A1's 2nd free throw. I can easily justify that by rule as previously cited.

"Coach, A1 was awarded two free throws. By rule the ball was dead when the first was missed and you can't score a goal when the ball is dead so B1's rebound and goal doesn't count. We're proceeding with A1's 2nd free throw."

Tim,

You have effectively taken 2-10-5 and 6 out of the Correctable error rule. Read the case play Bob cited.

Here's what the conversation should be---Both coaches together--"Coaches we screwed up and allowed the ball to remain in play when A1 should have gotten another free throw. The error was discovered in time to correct it. By rule all time that ran off clock, points scored before we stopped play are not nullified. Clock stays where it is at now and B's basket counts. We will shoot A1s other FT with no one on lane and then we will put the ball in play at the point of interruption (where we stopped the game when we realized there was a problem.) That will be a throw in for team A on the end line. That's what the rules require.

Again, sorry for the screw up."

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Tim,

You have effectively taken 2-10-5 and 6 out of the Correctable error rule. Read the case play Bob cited.

Here's what the conversation should be---Both coaches together--"Coaches we screwed up and allowed the ball to remain in play when A1 should have gotten another free throw. The error was discovered in time to correct it. By rule all time that ran off clock, points scored before we stopped play are not nullified. Clock stays where it is at now and B's basket counts. We will shoot A1s other FT with no one on lane and then we will put the ball in play at the point of interruption (where we stopped the game when we realized there was a problem.) That will be a throw in for team A on the end line. That's what the rules require.

Again, sorry for the screw up."

Did the clock start? Did the C forget it was the 1st and chop the clock? Did the officials just watch B wondering what he was doing? Need more information to know if it's a CE or a player just being a goof during dead ball.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Dad

Did the clock start? Did the C forget it was the 1st and chop the clock? Did the officials just watch B wondering what he was doing? Need more information to know if it's a CE or a player just being a goof during dead ball.

No, you really don't. The title of the OP is how do you correct the ERROR. Again, if a player was just being a goof we would be talking about technical fouls. Not correctable errors.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BigCat

No, you really don't. The title of the OP is how do you correct the ERROR. Again, if a player was just being a goof we would be talking about technical fouls. Not correctable errors.

I agree it's probably a CE, but the post leaves out some vital info.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Dad

Did the clock start? Did the C forget it was the 1st and chop the clock? Did the officials just watch B wondering what he was doing? Need more information to know if it's a CE or a player just being a goof during dead ball.

And this has been my point from the beginning.

The rules are very specific on how a ball can become live - it doesn't happen by magic.

If in the OP's situation the officials had not immediately recognized the issue, and after B1's goal had allowed the ball to be at A's disposal for a throw in, then the ball becomes live by rule, there would be interim play and I agree that a CE situation would exist if the error was recognized within the allowable time frame.

I will also agree that there was a CE in the OP's situation, but it wasn't failing to award a merited free throw. The real CE was erroneously counting B1's score, and if A's coach was on the ball, he would challenge it as a correctable error on the basis the ball was dead after the missed first FT, and consequently B1's goal was invalid.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BigCat

No, you really don't. The title of the OP is how do you correct the ERROR. Again, if a player was just being a goof we would be talking about technical fouls. Not correctable errors.

I disagree. If everyone except the kid is looking at him like he is a fool, the fact that they let him run down the court and let him shoot doesn't make it a live ball and a correctable error.

If the shots were announced as "2", the officials administered as 2, the other players reacted as 2, and the trial never chopped time in, it is a dead ball....and there really is no "error". You could issue a T, but I wouldn't if I thought the kid just spaced out and kept playing.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I disagree. If everyone except the kid is looking at him like he is a fool, the fact that they let him run down the court and let him shoot doesn't make it a live ball and a correctable error.

If the shots were announced as "2", the officials administered as 2, the other players reacted as 2, and the trial never chopped time in, it is a dead ball....and there really is no "error". You could issue a T, but I wouldn't if I thought the kid just spaced out and kept playing.

Again, the Op IS titled how do you correct error. Also, the op has B shoot the ball, it goes in and THEN the officials realize the error. B acting like a clown, dribbling ALL the way down the floor with everyone looking at him isn't part of the OP.

And again, if there's another FT to shoot and B takes off with the ball I will blow the whistle..soon...probably twice. If he continues all the way down the floor and shoots the ball he is getting a T.

Finally, Tim is saying that if the official announces two shots and B rebounds the first FT the ball remains dead even if everyone played all the way down floor...and the officials officiated. He says the ball only becomes live when it is at A1 disposal after B basket. That just isn't true. In correctable error situations the officials allow play to continue and consumed time, points scored are not nullified. The regular dead ball live ball rule does not apply when there is an error.

[BryanV21]

By allowing the player from Team B to rebound the 1st FT attempt and go down and score, the officials have essentially made it so the ball became live by error.

And with that we have a correctable error.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by BigCat

.............Finally, Tim is saying that if the official announces two shots and B rebounds the first FT the ball remains dead even if everyone played all the way down floor...and the officials officiated. He says the ball only becomes live when it is at A1 disposal after B basket. That just isn't true. In correctable error situations the officials allow play to continue and consumed time, points scored are not nullified. The regular dead ball live ball rule does not apply when there is an error.

I understand where you are coming from, but am still waiting for a rules citation that directly supports what you are saying. Show me a ruling that the live ball/dead ball rules don't apply.

By contrast, I can and have provided rules citations that directly support what I have said, including that the officials counting the basket by B1 was the real correctable error in the OP's scenario.

There is also nothing in the OP that says everyone played all the way down the floor and the officials officiated.

The only way that B1's goal was valid is if the officials had awarded one free throw and administered it as such, B1 gets the rebound and scores, and then they realize there should have been a second free throw by A1. In that case the failure to award the 2nd merited free throw would be a CE. In that case any interim action would stand, including B1's goal and any time run off the clock.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

By allowing the player from Team B to rebound the 1st FT attempt and go down and score, the officials have essentially made it so the ball became live by error.

And with that we have a correctable error.

Rule citation?

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

Rule citation?

You wrote it... When the officials didn't stop play when they should have the ball was live when the free throw was missed.

That's the error that needs to be corrected.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

You wrote it... When the officials didn't stop play when they should have the ball was live when the free throw was missed.

That's the error that needs to be corrected.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

THAT'S NOT A CE.

3 scenarios, 2 outcomes

1) The officials announce 2 shots and play as such, and B1 rebounds thinking it was only 1 and goes down and scores a basket while everyone else is just staring at this kid run like a spaz down the court to score.
OUTCOME: Make a joke to make the kid feel better because he's embarrassed enough, don't score the 2 and shoot the second FT as normal.

2) The officials announce 2 shots and play as such, except ALL kids brain fart and play the rebound. B1 goes down and score.
OUTCOME: If the officials didn't stop play before the score then the score counts and we go CE with 1 shot and no one on line and then resume at POE.

3) Officials announce 1&1 and things play out like described.
OUTCOME: See outcome of #2.

In any of the scenarios the officials screwed up.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by TimTaylor

I understand where you are coming from, but am still waiting for a rules citation that directly supports what you are saying. Show me a ruling that the live ball/dead ball rules don't apply.

By contrast, I can and have provided rules citations that directly support what I have said, including that the officials counting the basket by B1 was the real correctable error in the OP's scenario.

There is also nothing in the OP that says everyone played all the way down the floor and the officials officiated.

The only way that B1's goal was valid is if the officials had awarded one free throw and administered it as such, B1 gets the rebound and scores, and then they realize there should have been a second free throw by A1. In that case the failure to award the 2nd merited free throw would be a CE. In that case any interim action would stand, including B1's goal and any time run off the clock.

Tim, look at 2.10.1g. The reasoning."..since the ball remained in play on the missed FT, the clock started and the ball BECAME dead WHEN the goal was scored." The ball is live when play is allowed to continue. Becomes dead when goal scored.

They did not say the ball was dead or became dead on the missed FT. "Remained in play" means "stayed live."

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by deecee

THAT'S NOT A CE.

3 scenarios, 2 outcomes

1) The officials announce 2 shots and play as such, and B1 rebounds thinking it was only 1 and goes down and scores a basket while everyone else is just staring at this kid run like a spaz down the court to score.
OUTCOME: Make a joke to make the kid feel better because he's embarrassed enough, don't score the 2 and shoot the second FT as normal.

2) The officials announce 2 shots and play as such, except ALL kids brain fart and play the rebound. B1 goes down and score.
OUTCOME: If the officials didn't stop play before the score then the score counts and we go CE with 1 shot and no one on line and then resume at POE.

3) Officials announce 1&1 and things play out like described.
OUTCOME: See outcome of #2.

In any of the scenarios the officials screwed up.

Yes, I know what I just said is not the CE. Not awarding the merited free throw is the error.

So, to more directly answer Tim's question....

The ball became live with the missed free throw.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Tim, look at 2.10.1g. The reasoning."..since the ball remained in play on the missed FT, the clock started and the ball BECAME dead WHEN the goal was scored." The ball is live when play is allowed to continue. Becomes dead when goal scored.

They did not say the ball was dead or became dead on the missed FT. "Remained in play" means "stayed live."

Just got home where my books are. Based on 2.10.1.g I'll agree that assuming there was actual play bedisdes B1's actions this would apply. Unfortunately they're aren't enough details in the OP to confirm that.