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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 09:39am
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Casebook play 9.2.2 Question.

So casebook play states....
Casebook 9.2.2: A1 scores a basket. After the ball goes through the net, B1 grabs it and makes a move toward the end line as though preparing to make a throw-in. However, B1 never legally steps out of bounds. B1 immediately passes the ball up the court to a fast-breaking teammate, who score a basket. RULING: Cancel Team Bís goal, throw-in violation on B1. The ball was at B1ís disposal after the made basket to make a throw-in. B1 must be out of bounds to make a legal throw-in. (7-4-3; 7-5-7).

So my question is for a situation if there was no made basket as in the above case. When do you whistle the ball dead and call the violation? After a 5 second count?
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 09:42am
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If there wasn't a made goal, an official is required to hand the ball to the thrower. He is going to be out of bounds before the official gives him the ball so this won't be a problem. If he steps inbounds prior to throwing the ball, it is a violation and a whistle at that point.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 09:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
If there wasn't a made goal, an official is required to hand the ball to the thrower. He is going to be out of bounds before the official gives him the ball so this won't be a problem. If he steps inbounds prior to throwing the ball, it is a violation and a whistle at that point.
Sorry, what I meant to say is, what happens if B1 threw the ball to his/her teammate and team B brought the ball down the court but they were passing it around and no goal was scored by team B?

Last edited by tophat67; Tue Feb 09, 2016 at 09:49am.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 09:53am
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Originally Posted by tophat67 View Post
Sorry, what I meant to say is, what happens if B1 threw the ball to his/her teammate and team B brought the ball down the court but they were passing it around and no goal was scored by team B?
As soon as B1 throws the ball (and it's meant as a throw-in, not just tossing the ball to b2 to become the inbounder), it's a violation. The play never gets far enough fro B to pass it around in the FC.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 10:59am
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Use your best judgment.

Did the player act as if he was throwing in the ball? If you said "yes" then you have a throw-in violation and you should blow the whistle and call it when it happens.

Did the player toss the ball to his teammate in an attempt for him to make the throw-in, only for that player to misunderstand and dribble down the court? If you said "yes" to this, then you would start a count as soon as you deem the ball was at their disposal for the throw-in. So you may have a 5-second count before they realize their mistake and run back to make the throw-in legally.

Now, there may be something else at play here that I'm not aware. So look out for other responses.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 11:26am
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Originally Posted by BryanV21 View Post
Use your best judgment.

Did the player act as if he was throwing in the ball? If you said "yes" then you have a throw-in violation and you should blow the whistle and call it when it happens.

Did the player toss the ball to his teammate in an attempt for him to make the throw-in, only for that player to misunderstand and dribble down the court? If you said "yes" to this, then you would start a count as soon as you deem the ball was at their disposal for the throw-in. So you may have a 5-second count before they realize their mistake and run back to make the throw-in legally.

Now, there may be something else at play here that I'm not aware. So look out for other responses.
Either way, once it's clear B has no intention of making a legitimate throw-in, I'm calling the violation. If B1 is trying to get B2's attention, knowing they need to do it right, I'll just count either until I get to 5 or B1 gives up and just goes with it.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 11:52am
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
If there wasn't a made goal, an official is required to hand the ball to the thrower. He is going to be out of bounds before the official gives him the ball so this won't be a problem. If he steps inbounds prior to throwing the ball, it is a violation and a whistle at that point.
What does this have to do with the casebook play? If there wasn't a made goal it would've just been a rebound.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 12:02pm
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There were two made goals in the OP. The OP's question was a little vague, but he meant to ask what would happen if the second goal was never made and B was just passing/dribbling the ball around. Nevadaref assumed he meant what if A had never scored.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 12:04pm
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Originally Posted by Altor View Post
There were two made goals in the OP. The OP's question was a little vague, but he meant to ask what would happen if the second goal was never made and B was just passing/dribbling the ball around. Nevadaref assumed he meant what if A had never scored.
I read it the way Nevadaref did at first.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 12:12pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
I read it the way Nevadaref did at first.
How is that? I assumed he meant the second shot as the first shot miss wouldn't make any sense for his question on when you call the violation. There is no violation on a miss because the player never went OOB for the throw-in.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 12:14pm
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Congratulations, you successfully parsed the vague question. Not everybody did. Now we are all on the same page. Move on.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 12:17pm
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Originally Posted by Dad View Post
How is that? I assumed he meant the second shot as the first shot miss wouldn't make any sense for his question on when you call the violation. There is no violation on a miss because the player never went OOB for the throw-in.
The short answer is we get a lot of questions that have very basic answers, especially this time of year.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 12:24pm
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Originally Posted by tophat67 View Post
So my question is for a situation if there was no made basket as in the above case. When do you whistle the ball dead and call the violation? After a 5 second count?
I'm going with a five second count. The player doesn't have to be out of bounds or even have the ball for us to start counting.

The one exception is the 3A varsity assigner who wants us to tell the players on this play and "correct" it for them. i.e. we get the ball and then pass it to them for a throw-in. The league is on the same page so I'm just going with whatever my assigner wants.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 12:42pm
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The key to the case play, IMO, is not the fact that B makes a basket. The point was to resolve a debate over when to call the violation, and it is to be called as soon as it's clear the new offensive team has no intention of making a correct throw in.

They added the piece about B making a basket in order to ensure we don't credit b with the score because we think it's too late to correct.
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Old Tue Feb 09, 2016, 12:59pm
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This play wsa discussed with some fervor many many years ago on this forum.

Some said "start the 5-second count." (That was my vote, iirc.)

Some said "immediate violation."

Some said "reset the play."

The next year (again, iirc), the NFHS came out with the interp that's in the case play -- immediate violation. So, that's how I'll call it if it ever comes up in one of my games.
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