Casebook play 9.2.2 Question.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Adam

The key to the case play, IMO, is not the fact that B makes a basket. The point was to resolve a debate over when to call the violation, and it is to be called as soon as it's clear the new offensive team has no intention of making a correct throw in.

They added the piece about B making a basket in order to ensure we don't credit b with the score because we think it's too late to correct.

So much easier, for me, to just start the five second count. I don't want to call a violation because one player is screwing up. A1 passes to A2 who then runs out of bounds to pass it in telling A1 they messed up. Or A1 passes it to A2 and A3 runs over to say hey you need to get out of bounds before throwing it in. I can imagine problems with blowing a whistle judging intent. I've never had or seen anything go wrong with starting the five second count and then calling a violation if the team doesn't fix it.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dad

So much easier, for me, to just start the five second count. I don't want to call a violation because one player is screwing up. A1 passes to A2 who then runs out of bounds to pass it in telling A1 they messed up. Or A1 passes it to A2 and A3 runs over to say hey you need to get out of bounds before throwing it in. I can imagine problems with blowing a whistle judging intent. I've never had or seen anything go wrong with starting the five second count and then calling a violation if the team doesn't fix it.

I'd wait and see where A2 goes with it once he receives the pass. A3 won't get the chance to fix it.

The NFHS seems (to me) to have made it clear they just want us to call the violation rather than wait 5 seconds for the inevitable.

Your way isn't bad, unless B is running a press. What if A2 travels or double dribbles? Everyone is going to wonder why you didn't call that only to call a throw-in violation 3-4 seconds later. I think it avoids confusion.

If A1 steps towards OOB, but never makes it before throwing up court, would you just keep counting to 5? If B2 fouls A2 going up for a shot while you're at 4 in your count?

Too many odd variables that get avoided if you just call the violation when it's clear they aren't going to do it right. No need to judge intent or read minds, it's pretty clear from their actions.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'd wait and see where A2 goes with it once he receives the pass. A3 won't get the chance to fix it.

The NFHS seems (to me) to have made it clear they just want us to call the violation rather than wait 5 seconds for the inevitable.

Your way isn't bad, unless B is running a press. What if A2 travels or double dribbles? Everyone is going to wonder why you didn't call that only to call a throw-in violation 3-4 seconds later. I think it avoids confusion.

If A1 steps towards OOB, but never makes it before throwing up court, would you just keep counting to 5? If B2 fouls A2 going up for a shot while you're at 4 in your count?

Too many odd variables that get avoided if you just call the violation when it's clear they aren't going to do it right. No need to judge intent or read minds, it's pretty clear from their actions.

Yeah, I lied, mostly. I'm always starting a five second count, but not necessarily finishing it. There's been times where I've blown a play dead before finishing my count. Maybe a better way to put it is I'm not blowing a violation just because A1 doesn't step OOB before throwing the ball in.

[TimTaylor]

Originally Posted by Dad

Yeah, I lied, mostly. I'm always starting a five second count, but not necessarily finishing it. There's been times where I've blown a play dead before finishing my count. Maybe a better way to put it is I'm not blowing a violation just because A1 doesn't step OOB before throwing the ball in.

I always start the 5-second count as soon as the ball is at the team's disposal for throw-in, but as Adam said, will also whistle the violation as soon as it's clear they aren't going to make a legal throw-in.

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by Dad

So much easier, for me, to just start the five second count. I don't want to call a violation because one player is screwing up. A1 passes to A2 who then runs out of bounds to pass it in telling A1 they messed up. Or A1 passes it to A2 and A3 runs over to say hey you need to get out of bounds before throwing it in. I can imagine problems with blowing a whistle judging intent. I've never had or seen anything go wrong with starting the five second count and then calling a violation if the team doesn't fix it.

...and if B steals a pass and scores during your 5-second count?

[BryanV21]

By the looks of things I was wrong to say to start a 5-second count.

Oh well... not my first mistake, and not my last.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

...and if B steals a pass and scores during your 5-second count?

Calling a violation. My original posts were wrong, but when I posted them I meant I'm not calling a violation if A1 and A2 are alone in their BC. I'm giving A2 a moment to notice if A1 didn't legally make a throw-in.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Dad

Calling a violation. My original posts were wrong, but when I posted them I meant I'm not calling a violation if A1 and A2 are alone in their BC. I'm giving A2 a moment to notice if A1 didn't legally make a throw-in.

I think that's fair, but A2 needs to react pretty fast to avoid the violation.