Coach appears to headbutt official

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by tnolan

ble

So here's more of my take on the sitch after seeing this entire thing play out....
IMO, I hate the knock the guy but....I know that Trail is just trying to help out, but I'm sorry. He needs to let the Lead live with his call and deal with an irate coach himself. Lead sold his call hard, so I can only assume that he 100% believed he was right. When the coach comes well out of his box to argue the call, and by book, warrants a T just for that, maybe after the Lead reports, he can calm him down back into his box and we can continue playing ball. In that situation, it depends on what he says exactly...but 99% of the time, I'm going to T him up as well. And maybe the Lead should have T'd him up quicker, and the Trail would not of had to get involved. Either way, I don't think this is the Trail's fight to enter.

First and foremost the coach's actions have absolutely no place in a basketball game at any level, let alone a scholastic environment. He deserves whatever negative consequences come about as a result.

From on officiating perspective I agree with much of the above. I understand the sentiment of having your partner's back but I think the Trail should have given the Lead another second or two to handle the situation himself.

And when he comes in with the T he does so rather aggressively while stepping toward the coach. I don't think its fair to characterize it as "extreme anger/emotion" as another poster stated but I do think its fair to suggest that its not a good practice to issue a T in such a manner in this situation.

A sad situation for HS basketball as a direct result of the coach's inability to control himself but hopefully a learning experience for all.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

First and foremost the coach's actions have absolutely no place in a basketball game at any level, let alone a scholastic environment. He deserves whatever negative consequences come about as a result.

From on officiating perspective I agree with much of the above. I understand the sentiment of having your partner's back but I think the Trail should have given the Lead another second or two to handle the situation himself.

And when he comes in with the T he does so rather aggressively while stepping toward the coach. I don't think its fair to characterize it as "extreme anger/emotion" as another poster stated but I do think its fair to suggest that its not a good practice to issue a T in such a manner in this situation.

A sad situation for HS basketball as a direct result of the coach's inability to control himself but hopefully a learning experience for all.

right. see my previous post and reply to BigT.

but take the coaches 2nd actions towards the Trail out of the case. do you still think he did so "aggressively"?
i can't say he did anything wrong here, but will say he could've easily called the T from where he stood initially.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by tnolan

right. see my previous post and reply to BigT.

but take the coaches 2nd actions towards the Trail out of the case. do you still think he did so "aggressively"?
i can't say he did anything wrong here, but will say he could've easily called the T from where he stood initially.

He gets a T for his initial reaction. Someone has to get it. If not the lead, then the trail coming in to get it is fine. He did come in aggressively. No possible way he could ever imagine a head butt coming.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by OKREF

He gets a T for his initial reaction. Someone has to get it. If not the lead, then the trail coming in to get it is fine. He did come in aggressively. No possible way he could ever imagine a head butt coming.

Looks like the other two officials may have had their back to their partner and the confrontation at the moment the alleged contact occurred even though at least one of those two officials saw the first official whack the coach.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by OKREF

He gets a T for his initial reaction. Someone has to get it. If not the lead, then the trail coming in to get it is fine. He did come in aggressively. No possible way he could ever imagine a head butt coming.

i'm aware.
and i've already said that if the Lead doesn't get the T first, then either of the other 2 should definitely have it.

what i was alluding to though, hypothetically, if the coach doesn't "headbutt" the Trail, are we even talking about him coming in aggressively?

[deecee]

I'm sick of all the BS excuses by folks (on here and in general) for piss poor behavior by players and coaches while the officials are expected to walk on water. Let's call it what it is. Sad, sorry, and old. I may unload on a coach if they headbutted me and made me felt threatened. I'm sure then the coach would be forgiven, I would be put in jail for 10 years and he would get a book deal.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

I'm sick of all the BS excuses by folks (on here and in general) for piss poor behavior by players and coaches while the officials are expected to walk on water. Let's call it what it is. Sad, sorry, and old. I may unload on a coach if they headbutted me and made me felt threatened. I'm sure then the coach would be forgiven, I would be put in jail for 10 years and he would get a book deal.

The official could have called him all kinds of names and still IMO did not warrant the reaction from the coach. If we started swinging on everyone that said something bad to us, none of us would be without a criminal record. If we can restrain ourselves every game and multiple times, I think a coach can walk away because he got a T, not a ticket, not a fine, just a procedural act in a game that at best gives the other team the ball and some points. Nothing that took place was out of line or over the top by the official.

Peace

[UNIgiantslayers]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The official could have called him all kinds of names and still IMO did not warrant the reaction from the coach. If we started swinging on everyone that said something bad to us, none of us would be without a criminal record. If we can restrain ourselves every game and multiple times, I think a coach can walk away because he got a T, not a ticket, not a fine, just a procedural act in a game that at best gives the other team the ball and some points. Nothing that took place was out of line or over the top by the official.

Peace

Good post, and I agree. This coach can go sit on a road spike.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by tnolan

i'm aware.
and i've already said that if the Lead doesn't get the T first, then either of the other 2 should definitely have it.

what i was alluding to though, hypothetically, if the coach doesn't "headbutt" the Trail, are we even talking about him coming in aggressively?

I see. You're probably right.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I see. You're probably right.

and maybe Smitty has something there...
maybe Trail is rushing in to act as a buffer between the coach and Lead?
maybe Trail believes that he had given Lead enough time to have first crack at giving the coach a T, and that it was his time to step in?
no one will know but Trail.

but like i said earlier....i don't put blame on Trail for coming in quick. and it's definitely unfortunate that he had to be the "victim" of a moron head coach, but i believe if his only intention was to T the coach up, and not act as a buffer, he could've called the T from 10 feet away. jus' sayin'

[Altor]

Unless you all have seen a video that I've missed, I don't know how you can make a determination that the T came too quickly. We don't see the coach until he is well out onto the court, and we don't see the T until after that. We have no idea how far either of them came to get to that point.

Additionally, the L's head was turned to the players to get the number for the foul. When he finally saw the coach, his whistle was immediately going back into his mouth until the T put air in his.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by Altor

Additionally, the L's head was turned to the players to get the number for the foul. When he finally saw the coach, his whistle was immediately going back into his mouth until the T put air in his.

decent point.
not sure if i agree or disagree with it though. obviously you can't know, but it does almost appear that way.

but a couple new tips to take away from it, is that Lead needs SLOW DOWN. he did a great job of making the call, fist in the air, immediately cancels the basket, and makes the proper PC mechanic. but he shouldn't have left his PCA until he knows for sure who he has the foul on. how is he able to process and properly assess the coach a T, when he doesn't even know who the foul is on?
had he had the number in his head already, he's looking directly at the table to report while coming up and meets that coach head on and then can enforce the T correctly. (hopefully)
report PC, report T, possibly quickly conference with crew to make sure they're all on the same page, go opposite to get away from the coach you just T'd up, shoot in the order in which they occurred and continue the game.

also worth noting, early in the video, the Lead also has the closely guarded count in the corner, which the Lead should never do.