Coach appears to headbutt official

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

Here's another view of the incident. The play leading up to it begins at 1:33:29 on the 2nd video on the page. The first video is a condensed version.

1-5: Pennsbury vs. Neshaminy on Livestream

(obviously I'm out of practice with embedding...)

Thanks! This is a much better video (for officials to learn from) as you state in your next post.

I agree with most here, that:
A) more than likely should have been a block call based on the secondary defenders' timing of LGP
B) C could probably make this call, but not from where he appeared to be in the video. maybe it's just the video, but it looks like he's a mile away! and instead of closing down, he tilts his head a little bit and never moves. so IMO, Lead has the better look here as center didn't put himself into position to make this call. at first i was afraid there would be a no call!
C) obviously, the coaches actions (contact or none) are ridiculously unacceptable

So here's more of my take on the sitch after seeing this entire thing play out....
IMO, I hate the knock the guy but....I know that Trail is just trying to help out, but I'm sorry. He needs to let the Lead live with his call and deal with an irate coach himself. Lead sold his call hard, so I can only assume that he 100% believed he was right. When the coach comes well out of his box to argue the call, and by book, warrants a T just for that, maybe after the Lead reports, he can calm him down back into his box and we can continue playing ball. In that situation, it depends on what he says exactly...but 99.99% of the time, I'm going to T him up as well. And maybe the Lead should have T'd him up quicker, and the Trail would not of had to get involved. Either way, I don't think this is the Trail's fight to enter.

With that being said, I'm still not sure if contact was made. And it's obvious that regardless of whether it was or not, the action of "chest/head pumping" or "faking" towards an official is an immediate ejection, for a player or coach. And then the coach waves his arm after the official falls down, as if to say, "pffft, i barely even touched you or didn't touch him at all, whatever" sort of gesture. completely uncalled for. I hope as many coaches see this video as officials and take some time to realize that they really need to be professional at all times.
For the officials sake, I hope that no contact was made and I hope that he is okay.

[Remington]

I know this is off topic, but did you hear the broadcasters in the second video in the link below? Go to approximately 1:33:30 and watch the play, the T, the contact and listen to the broadcasters.......

[BigT]

Originally Posted by tnolan

Thanks! This is a much better video (for officials to learn from) as you state in your next post.

I agree with most here, that:
A) more than likely should have been a block call based on the secondary defenders' timing of LGP
B) C could probably make this call, but not from where he appeared to be in the video. maybe it's just the video, but it looks like he's a mile away! and instead of closing down, he tilts his head a little bit and never moves. so IMO, Lead has the better look here as center didn't put himself into position to make this call. at first i was afraid there would be a no call!
C) obviously, the coaches actions (contact or none) are ridiculously unacceptable

So here's more of my take on the sitch after seeing this entire thing play out....
IMO, I hate the knock the guy but....I know that Trail is just trying to help out, but I'm sorry. He needs to let the Lead live with his call and deal with an irate coach himself. Lead sold his call hard, so I can only assume that he 100% believed he was right. When the coach comes well out of his box to argue the call, and by book, warrants a T just for that, maybe after the Lead reports, he can calm him down back into his box and we can continue playing ball. In that situation, it depends on what he says exactly...but 99% of the time, I'm going to T him up as well. And maybe the Lead should have T'd him up quicker, and the Trail would not of had to get involved. Either way, I don't think this is the Trail's fight to enter.

With that being said, I'm still not sure if contact was made. And it's obvious that regardless of whether it was or not, the action of "chest/head pumping" or "faking" towards an official is an immediate ejection, for a player or coach. And then the coach waves his arm after the official falls down, as if to say, "pffft, i barely even touched you or didn't touch him at all, whatever" sort of gesture. completely uncalled for. I hope as many coaches see this video as officials and take some time to realize that they really need to be professional at all times.
For the officials sake, I hope that no contact was made and I hope that he is okay.

Is it just me or if a coach comes that far out on the court and almost runs into my partner with all of that anger and is processing (horrible?) a call I cant whack the coach because its his job too and not mine. Are we a team? Its not even border line that is an automatic by someone on the crew right?

Not sure why anyone thinks this is Slot's play: secondary defender, in the lane is Lead's all day. Hell, the defender even came from Lead's side of the paint.

[grunewar]

Neshaminy (Langhorne, Pa.) basketball coach placed on administrative leave after incident with referee

By Adam Woodard, USA TODAY High School Sports January 6, 2016

Neshaminy (Penn.) boys basketball coach Jerry Divine has been placed on administrative leave after an incident Tuesday night in which he appeared to headbutt an official, knocking him to the ground while protesting a controversial call late in Neshaminy’s game against Pennbury.


Early Wednesday morning the school released a statement, saying they will investigate the incident involving the referee and Divine.

“The administration at Neshaminy School District is conducting a thorough review of an incident at the varsity basketball game Tuesday evening (January 5, 2016) involving coach Jerry Devine and a referee. Appropriate action was taken at the game following that incident, and further measures may follow depending on the outcome of that review. As this is a personnel matter, we will not be able to comment on the specifics of any possible disciplinary action until that review process is complete.

Mr. Devine has been placed on administrative leave pending the outcome of that review for both his teaching and coaching positions.

The athletic program at Neshaminy places the values of fair play and sportsmanlike conduct above all. We expect our coaches and staff to teach and uphold those principles, while acting in a professional manner at all times.”

[UNIgiantslayers]

This guy is a dirtbag and should be gone. No question about it. There is no defense for this kind of crap.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by BigT

Is it just me or if a coach comes that far out on the court and almost runs into my partner with all of that anger and is processing (horrible?) a call I cant whack the coach because its his job too and not mine. Are we a team? Its not even border line that is an automatic by someone on the crew right?

no, i agree with you here. the coach deserves a T 100% of the time in this case. i'm more leaning towards: let the Lead handle this first, but should he not issue one, THEN the Trail or Center should come T the coach up.

not really blaming the Trail for calling it, but maybe give Lead the first crack at handling his own. And if then the Trail calls it, Lead shouldn't argue with it and only thank him later for coming to his aid.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by tnolan

ble

So here's more of my take on the sitch after seeing this entire thing play out....
IMO, I hate the knock the guy but....I know that Trail is just trying to help out, but I'm sorry. He needs to let the Lead live with his call and deal with an irate coach himself. Lead sold his call hard, so I can only assume that he 100% believed he was right. When the coach comes well out of his box to argue the call, and by book, warrants a T just for that, maybe after the Lead reports, he can calm him down back into his box and we can continue playing ball. In that situation, it depends on what he says exactly...but 99% of the time, I'm going to T him up as well. And maybe the Lead should have T'd him up quicker, and the Trail would not of had to get involved. Either way, I don't think this is the Trail's fight to enter.

First and foremost the coach's actions have absolutely no place in a basketball game at any level, let alone a scholastic environment. He deserves whatever negative consequences come about as a result.

From on officiating perspective I agree with much of the above. I understand the sentiment of having your partner's back but I think the Trail should have given the Lead another second or two to handle the situation himself.

And when he comes in with the T he does so rather aggressively while stepping toward the coach. I don't think its fair to characterize it as "extreme anger/emotion" as another poster stated but I do think its fair to suggest that its not a good practice to issue a T in such a manner in this situation.

A sad situation for HS basketball as a direct result of the coach's inability to control himself but hopefully a learning experience for all.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

First and foremost the coach's actions have absolutely no place in a basketball game at any level, let alone a scholastic environment. He deserves whatever negative consequences come about as a result.

From on officiating perspective I agree with much of the above. I understand the sentiment of having your partner's back but I think the Trail should have given the Lead another second or two to handle the situation himself.

And when he comes in with the T he does so rather aggressively while stepping toward the coach. I don't think its fair to characterize it as "extreme anger/emotion" as another poster stated but I do think its fair to suggest that its not a good practice to issue a T in such a manner in this situation.

A sad situation for HS basketball as a direct result of the coach's inability to control himself but hopefully a learning experience for all.

right. see my previous post and reply to BigT.

but take the coaches 2nd actions towards the Trail out of the case. do you still think he did so "aggressively"?
i can't say he did anything wrong here, but will say he could've easily called the T from where he stood initially.

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by tnolan

right. see my previous post and reply to BigT.

but take the coaches 2nd actions towards the Trail out of the case. do you still think he did so "aggressively"?
i can't say he did anything wrong here, but will say he could've easily called the T from where he stood initially.

He gets a T for his initial reaction. Someone has to get it. If not the lead, then the trail coming in to get it is fine. He did come in aggressively. No possible way he could ever imagine a head butt coming.

[#olderthanilook]

Originally Posted by OKREF

He gets a T for his initial reaction. Someone has to get it. If not the lead, then the trail coming in to get it is fine. He did come in aggressively. No possible way he could ever imagine a head butt coming.

Looks like the other two officials may have had their back to their partner and the confrontation at the moment the alleged contact occurred even though at least one of those two officials saw the first official whack the coach.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by OKREF

He gets a T for his initial reaction. Someone has to get it. If not the lead, then the trail coming in to get it is fine. He did come in aggressively. No possible way he could ever imagine a head butt coming.

i'm aware.
and i've already said that if the Lead doesn't get the T first, then either of the other 2 should definitely have it.

what i was alluding to though, hypothetically, if the coach doesn't "headbutt" the Trail, are we even talking about him coming in aggressively?

[deecee]

I'm sick of all the BS excuses by folks (on here and in general) for piss poor behavior by players and coaches while the officials are expected to walk on water. Let's call it what it is. Sad, sorry, and old. I may unload on a coach if they headbutted me and made me felt threatened. I'm sure then the coach would be forgiven, I would be put in jail for 10 years and he would get a book deal.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by deecee

I'm sick of all the BS excuses by folks (on here and in general) for piss poor behavior by players and coaches while the officials are expected to walk on water. Let's call it what it is. Sad, sorry, and old. I may unload on a coach if they headbutted me and made me felt threatened. I'm sure then the coach would be forgiven, I would be put in jail for 10 years and he would get a book deal.

The official could have called him all kinds of names and still IMO did not warrant the reaction from the coach. If we started swinging on everyone that said something bad to us, none of us would be without a criminal record. If we can restrain ourselves every game and multiple times, I think a coach can walk away because he got a T, not a ticket, not a fine, just a procedural act in a game that at best gives the other team the ball and some points. Nothing that took place was out of line or over the top by the official.

Peace

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by tnolan

i'm aware.
and i've already said that if the Lead doesn't get the T first, then either of the other 2 should definitely have it.

what i was alluding to though, hypothetically, if the coach doesn't "headbutt" the Trail, are we even talking about him coming in aggressively?

I see. You're probably right.