Coach appears to headbutt official

[Altor]

Unless you all have seen a video that I've missed, I don't know how you can make a determination that the T came too quickly. We don't see the coach until he is well out onto the court, and we don't see the T until after that. We have no idea how far either of them came to get to that point.

Additionally, the L's head was turned to the players to get the number for the foul. When he finally saw the coach, his whistle was immediately going back into his mouth until the T put air in his.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by Altor

Additionally, the L's head was turned to the players to get the number for the foul. When he finally saw the coach, his whistle was immediately going back into his mouth until the T put air in his.

decent point.
not sure if i agree or disagree with it though. obviously you can't know, but it does almost appear that way.

but a couple new tips to take away from it, is that Lead needs SLOW DOWN. he did a great job of making the call, fist in the air, immediately cancels the basket, and makes the proper PC mechanic. but he shouldn't have left his PCA until he knows for sure who he has the foul on. how is he able to process and properly assess the coach a T, when he doesn't even know who the foul is on?
had he had the number in his head already, he's looking directly at the table to report while coming up and meets that coach head on and then can enforce the T correctly. (hopefully)
report PC, report T, possibly quickly conference with crew to make sure they're all on the same page, go opposite to get away from the coach you just T'd up, shoot in the order in which they occurred and continue the game.

also worth noting, early in the video, the Lead also has the closely guarded count in the corner, which the Lead should never do.

[Adam]

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

I'm all for saying once someone has assaulted an official there's little use in critiquing judgement calls.

It is useful to examine referee assaults to see if we can identify anything we can do differently in similarly volatile situations to increase our safety.

The biggest point, as I said earlier, is recognize out-of-control people and stay away from them. Not because our proximity makes it okay for them to attack but because us being in the right doesn't stop us from getting seriously injured.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'm all for saying once someone has assaulted an official there's little use in critiquing judgement calls.

It is useful to examine referee assaults to see if we can identify anything we can do differently in similarly volatile situations to increase our safety.

The biggest point, as I said earlier, is recognize out-of-control people and stay away from them. Not because our proximity makes it okay for them to attack but because us being in the right doesn't stop us from getting seriously injured.

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

As for the advice to recognize out of control people, that's great advice, but I think an overriding principle here comes from Monty Python.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

As for the advice to recognize out of control people, that's great advice, but I think an overriding principle here comes from Monty Python.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."

How about stay an arms length away from people in tense situations?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

How about stay an arms length away from people in tense situations?

In the video I saw, he was at arms length before the coach lunged and head-butted him. I think smitty offered the most reasonable explanation for the proximity as it was. He was getting into the situation to diffuse it when the coach earned his T.

[Maineac]

Recognizing out of control people and trying to stay an arm's length away from them sounds easy enough on it's surface, but the video clearly shows what happens when an out of control person doesn't want to remain an arm's length away. It's not always up to us.

Good point though about being "right" not preventing you from getting injured. Kind of like the pedestrian in the crosswalk who is legally in the right, but still gets killed when a car runs over him.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

The point of that is that if he got the call right, none of this would have ever happened.

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point of that is that if he got the call right, none of this would have ever happened.

So what? I don't see how this is relevant at all.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point of that is that if he got the call right, none of this would have ever happened.

Yep, and I stopped caring about that with the assault. I'm willing to discuss that, within reason, when a coach gets a technical foul after a missed call.

Assault and battery changes that for me.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Adam

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

...

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

The point of that is that if he got the call right, none of this would have ever happened.

The call could have been 100% correct and still evoked the same reaction.

Coaches' opinions of plays are quite often wrong.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

So if it happens on YouTube, notoriety is enough punishment? If there is no video, then charges need to be pressed?

Would the philosophy apply if someone takes cuts in front of me at the supermarket and I knocked that person down in response?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

Social responsibility. No-brainer.

If you feel for the coach, good for you. Almost no one else does and rightly so. He acted out in a way that isn't acceptable and just because you feel sorry for him doesn't mean the rest of the world should ignore laws.