Coach appears to headbutt official

[OKREF]

Originally Posted by tnolan

i'm aware.
and i've already said that if the Lead doesn't get the T first, then either of the other 2 should definitely have it.

what i was alluding to though, hypothetically, if the coach doesn't "headbutt" the Trail, are we even talking about him coming in aggressively?

I see. You're probably right.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by OKREF

I see. You're probably right.

and maybe Smitty has something there...
maybe Trail is rushing in to act as a buffer between the coach and Lead?
maybe Trail believes that he had given Lead enough time to have first crack at giving the coach a T, and that it was his time to step in?
no one will know but Trail.

but like i said earlier....i don't put blame on Trail for coming in quick. and it's definitely unfortunate that he had to be the "victim" of a moron head coach, but i believe if his only intention was to T the coach up, and not act as a buffer, he could've called the T from 10 feet away. jus' sayin'

[Altor]

Unless you all have seen a video that I've missed, I don't know how you can make a determination that the T came too quickly. We don't see the coach until he is well out onto the court, and we don't see the T until after that. We have no idea how far either of them came to get to that point.

Additionally, the L's head was turned to the players to get the number for the foul. When he finally saw the coach, his whistle was immediately going back into his mouth until the T put air in his.

[tnolan]

Originally Posted by Altor

Additionally, the L's head was turned to the players to get the number for the foul. When he finally saw the coach, his whistle was immediately going back into his mouth until the T put air in his.

decent point.
not sure if i agree or disagree with it though. obviously you can't know, but it does almost appear that way.

but a couple new tips to take away from it, is that Lead needs SLOW DOWN. he did a great job of making the call, fist in the air, immediately cancels the basket, and makes the proper PC mechanic. but he shouldn't have left his PCA until he knows for sure who he has the foul on. how is he able to process and properly assess the coach a T, when he doesn't even know who the foul is on?
had he had the number in his head already, he's looking directly at the table to report while coming up and meets that coach head on and then can enforce the T correctly. (hopefully)
report PC, report T, possibly quickly conference with crew to make sure they're all on the same page, go opposite to get away from the coach you just T'd up, shoot in the order in which they occurred and continue the game.

also worth noting, early in the video, the Lead also has the closely guarded count in the corner, which the Lead should never do.

[Adam]

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

I'm all for saying once someone has assaulted an official there's little use in critiquing judgement calls.

It is useful to examine referee assaults to see if we can identify anything we can do differently in similarly volatile situations to increase our safety.

The biggest point, as I said earlier, is recognize out-of-control people and stay away from them. Not because our proximity makes it okay for them to attack but because us being in the right doesn't stop us from getting seriously injured.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'm all for saying once someone has assaulted an official there's little use in critiquing judgement calls.

It is useful to examine referee assaults to see if we can identify anything we can do differently in similarly volatile situations to increase our safety.

The biggest point, as I said earlier, is recognize out-of-control people and stay away from them. Not because our proximity makes it okay for them to attack but because us being in the right doesn't stop us from getting seriously injured.

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

As for the advice to recognize out of control people, that's great advice, but I think an overriding principle here comes from Monty Python.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Adam

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

As for the advice to recognize out of control people, that's great advice, but I think an overriding principle here comes from Monty Python.

"Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition."

How about stay an arms length away from people in tense situations?

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Adam

I can see that. I was more addressing those who were writing, "nothing justifies the assault, but the call was wrong." I'm just not interested in discussing the accuracy of his call.

The point of that is that if he got the call right, none of this would have ever happened.

[Refhoop]

Originally Posted by Adam

I'm all for discussing plays and seeing what we as a group could have done differently in most situations. However, once a coach assaults (or batters) an official in the course of a game, I'm no longer interested in reviewing any actions of that official in that game. Unless he physically threatened the coach, the only discussion is whether or not the charges will be upgraded to a felony.

Someone noted that it seems he's not filing charges. If that's the case, it is my only critique of the official.

If he "embellished" or fell "too easily," I don't give a crap. We aren't required to stay in the line of fire and "take it like a man".

I'd be shocked if this was the first incident where this guy lost his temper, and I'm guessing he knew as soon as he turned around that his career was over and that he may well have to call his lawyer.

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

So if it happens on YouTube, notoriety is enough punishment? If there is no video, then charges need to be pressed?

Would the philosophy apply if someone takes cuts in front of me at the supermarket and I knocked that person down in response?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

Social responsibility. No-brainer.

If you feel for the coach, good for you. Almost no one else does and rightly so. He acted out in a way that isn't acceptable and just because you feel sorry for him doesn't mean the rest of the world should ignore laws.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

He can shake hands and forgive after sentencing. Hell, he can even testify as a character witness in the sentencing hearing for all I care.

I understand it's his decision whether or not to press charges, but I think this is one of those rare cases where the situation is bigger than the parties involved. By filing charges, he would be making a statement for all of the officials in their area and beyond. That may sound grandiose, but I think it's true.

So yes, it's his choice, but it's a choice that affects us all in some way. Do I want the coach to suffer? No, but I want him to face a jury of his peers.

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

Life is about the choices we make and the consequences resulting from those choices. The coach chose to commit a crime. I hoped the official was going to choose to start the process so the idiot...I mean educator/coach...on second thought...IDIOT would have to face ALL the consequences of the choice he made. Sometimes, when a person makes a choice the consequences are minor...sometimes the consequences are extremely harsh, cost the person their current career for the remainder of their life and remove them from society for a period of time.

To the person who has to pay that steep a price I say "Life is hard. It is even harder when you are an idiot and make stupid decisions" (probably butchered that...apologies to the originator).

[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by Refhoop

You want this coach to suffer huh?
The humiliation of this being talked about, possibly losing his job and having to explain this to his family isn't enough?
Would you be critical of the official if he chose to forgive this coach, shakes his hand and moved on with his life...?

No, internet "humiliation" is not enough. He committed a crime. This forum - and the internet as a whole - is not the place where punishments are handed out for criminal infractions.

I'm not criticizing the official, but I do think it is a mistake to not press charges. As others have said, this is about more than just this isolated incident. This is about setting a precedent that this behavior will not be tolerated.