is this considered a Kick in basketball

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Each play needs to be evaluated on it's own. HTBT.

If I determine it's intentional, I'll call a kicked ball. If I have to explain my call to a player or coach, if asked, I will.

If I determine it's not intentional, I'll hold my whistle, and explain that call too - if asked.

I'm not "pole vaulting mouse turds" here. Moving on.........

It's someone asking how to interpret a rule, which is certainly reasonable and creates discussion. If it's not of any value to you, why respond?

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by Smitty

It's someone asking how to interpret a rule, which is certainly reasonable and creates discussion. If it's not of any value to you, why respond?

Smitty - I'm not saying the conversation is not of value. I'm saying, like everything else we interpret, on this call, the official, in their mind, needs to determine if it's intentional contact, or not. Once that is done, make the call and be done with it.

When did a person close their legs and why? Before or after a pass?

Was it intentional contact or not - that is the question the official needs to determine?

Me, I am of the mind that a person can close their legs, before a pass, and the ball can hit their leg, and I can hold my whistle. If asked, I can explain it....and the game can move forward.

[Peeps]

Originally Posted by JetMetFan

As Smitty said, why did you bring your legs together? It appears you did it because you figured out that's where the ball was going to be passed which means you (wait for it) intended to do it.

i was crouched over leaning forward. when i saw him bring his arm back to pass, my first instinct was to close the 5 hole. i stood up and closed my legs. it wasnt like he did this all in one motion in .001 seconds.

he brought the ball back one handed (in my mind to make a bounce pass) he wasnt going around me and i heard someone cut behind me so my instinct was to close my legs. just as i closed my legs he still tried to pass the ball. which hit my shin/kneecap

again, this is a mens pickup league, we arent playing life and death or winner advances to the state tourney but there are always arguments as to what is a kick or what is a travel on an airball etc.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Smitty

In the same situation, if the defender jumped with their legs spread and the pass hit the front of the thigh of the defender, would you also have no violation?

Did the ball strike the thigh or did the thigh strike the ball (and, if so, did the player intentionally strike the ball with the thigh)?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Peeps

I don't mean to sound like I'm asking over and over hoping to get to hear what I want. I'm no ref but to me if a player closes his legs and then the defender still throws the ball in an attempt to go through his legs this to me would be a bad pass, not an intentional kick

Had he thrown the pass then I closed my legs that would be cut and dry as a kick

Thanks for the input


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Putting your legs together is not a proper defensive stance, why would you do that?

[Peeps]

well, im 45 and old

while its not proper it was to block a pass from going between my legs, i had my arms and hands ready to deflect a pass to either side

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Did the ball strike the thigh or did the thigh strike the ball (and, if so, did the player intentionally strike the ball with the thigh)?

I think you and I have a different idea of what determines intention. In this scenario, I don't think it matters whether the ball strikes the thigh or the thigh strikes the ball. You're splitting hairs. What matters (to me) is whether the defender was attempting to defend using their legs when the ball struck the leg. Once the ball comes in contact with any part of the leg at that point, it's a kicking violation (to me).

[Peeps]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I think you and I have a different idea of what determines intention. In this scenario, I don't think it matters whether the ball strikes the thigh or the thigh strikes the ball. You're splitting hairs. What matters (to me) is whether the defender was attempting to defend using their legs when the ball struck the leg. Once the ball comes in contact with any part of the leg at that point, it's a kicking violation (to me).

what exactly constitutes the leg, is it shin down. or from the waist down? (honest question)

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Peeps

what exactly constitutes the leg, is it shin down. or from the waist down? (honest question)

The exact wording is in the rule book, which I don't have on me at the moment. But it extends all the way up the leg - thigh included. I believe it used to be more restrictive several years ago, but I don't recall the exact wording of the older rule either.

[Peeps]

Originally Posted by Smitty

The exact wording is in the rule book, which I don't have on me at the moment. But it extends all the way up the leg - thigh included. I believe it used to be more restrictive several years ago, but I don't recall the exact wording of the older rule either.

if you have played pickup i am sure you run into this just the same as we do. so basically if a player gets hit in the nether regions, since it hits part of the leg that would be considered to be a kick?

we have played in the past it is the knee down

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Peeps

if you have played pickup i am sure you run into this just the same as we do. so basically if a player gets hit in the nether regions, since it hits part of the leg that would be considered to be a kick?

we have played in the past it is the knee down

If the ball hits you in the nuts, that's just good defense. No violation there, although you may feel like you were violated in a different way.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Peeps

well, im 45 and old

while its not proper it was to block a pass from going between my legs, i had my arms and hands ready to deflect a pass to either side

So the bolded part should answer your question as to whether or not it was a kick.

[Peeps]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

So the bolded part should answer your question as to whether or not it was a kick.

.....if i had moved my knees together while the pass was in the air.

however i closed my legs before the ball left his hand

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Peeps

if you have played pickup i am sure you run into this just the same as we do. so basically if a player gets hit in the nether regions, since it hits part of the leg that would be considered to be a kick?

we have played in the past it is the knee down

No one intentionally moves the "nether regions" to get hit.

The rule used to be "knee down" -- it's been any part of the leg for more than just a few years now.

You intentionally moved your feet to "play defense on the ball" -- that's a violation.

And, while there is some room for interpretation on this, no one here was there to see it. And, if you have no refs, you're going to get a "discussion" during the game.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by Smitty

I think you and I have a different idea of what determines intention. In this scenario, I don't think it matters whether the ball strikes the thigh or the thigh strikes the ball. You're splitting hairs. What matters (to me) is whether the defender was attempting to defend using their legs when the ball struck the leg. Once the ball comes in contact with any part of the leg at that point, it's a kicking violation (to me).

What should matter to you is what the rule says. If the defender does not intentionally strike the ball, it cannot be a kick.

I don't know what you mean by "attempting to defend using their legs." Do you mean by actively moving their legs? Or is it a certain leg position?

We have a specific definition for kicking. Let's use that.