is this considered a Kick in basketball

[Peeps]

the offensive player has the ball and begins the motion to make a one handed pass.

the defender closes his legs to stop the ball from going through. does not extend his feet. the only movement he makes is closing his knees together

the offensive player throws the ball and hits the defender and defender gathers the ball and goes the other way.

is that a kick?

[ODog]

Originally Posted by Peeps

... the defender closes his legs to stop the ball from going through ...

Yes. A kick is defined as intentionally striking the ball with your leg.

[Peeps]

Originally Posted by ODog

Yes. A kick is defined as intentionally striking the ball with your leg.

Even if the defender closes his legs before the pass is made?

Mind you the offensive player threw the ball at the defenders legs, the defenders feet never moved

[ODog]

Originally Posted by Peeps

Even if the defender closes his legs before the pass is made?

I suppose I'd have to see it, but if the legs are already closed like this before the pass is even made, that's a no-call for me. It is, however, up to the official's judgment whether the ball's contact with the leg was the result of an intentional act.

The second part you keep mentioning about "the feet never moved" is entirely irrelevant. A kick needn't be done with your feet. It is intentionally striking the ball with any part of your leg.

[Peeps]

This is a men's pick up league so no refs (call your own fouls ) so as you can imagine this leads to plenty of arguments.

In this case I'm the defender and as the offensive brought his arm back to make the pass I closed my legs before his release. To me this is not a kick as I was standing there and he threw the pass (being a one handed pass he could t stop the pass once his arm started moving forward)

[VaTerp]

As described here I have a kick ball violation.

You tried to stop the pass and in doing so intentionally struck the ball with your legs. Seems fairly simple to me and you are not going to get the benefit of the doubt when you "close your legs to stop the ball."

[Peeps]

Even if the legs are closed before the pass? This is where the argument happened. I could see if he makes the pass between my legs and then I closed them. To me that's no argument.

Offensive player even said I closed my legs before the ball left his hand but there was nothing he could do


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[VaTerp]

You can keep asking the same question and my guess is that over 9 out of 10 officials here is going to here what you are describing and think that its a violation.

When you say, "the defender closes his legs to stop the ball" its pretty simple. Doesnt matter when the ball was released. As you described it with your own words it sounds like a clear case of intentionally striking the ball with your leg.

Violation. Its what the vast majority of refs would call in our college, HS, or rec league games. And its what is going to get called in a pick up league.

[Peeps]

I don't mean to sound like I'm asking over and over hoping to get to hear what I want. I'm no ref but to me if a player closes his legs and then the defender still throws the ball in an attempt to go through his legs this to me would be a bad pass, not an intentional kick

Had he thrown the pass then I closed my legs that would be cut and dry as a kick

Thanks for the input


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[jpgc99]

Originally Posted by Peeps

I don't mean to sound like I'm asking over and over hoping to get to hear what I want. I'm no ref but to me if a player closes his legs and then the defender still throws the ball in an attempt to go through his legs this to me would be a bad pass, not an intentional kick

Had he thrown the pass then I closed my legs that would be cut and dry as a kick

Thanks for the input


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Sure, maybe if you really closed your legs before the pass it isn't a kick. But I would argue it is extremely rare for this to happen. Most times you are reacting to the pass and that reaction is going to come as the ball is being released.

[Smitty]

Why did you close your legs at that point? This makes no sense to me unless you knew he was going to try and pass through your legs (maybe he did this earlier in the game) and you were defending against it.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by Peeps

In this case I'm the defender and as the offensive brought his arm back to make the pass I closed my legs before his release.

As Smitty said, why did you bring your legs together? It appears you did it because you figured out that's where the ball was going to be passed which means you (wait for it) intended to do it.

[Eastshire]

I'm willing to be the contrarian here.

Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with any part of the leg or foot.

If the defender closed his legs and then the ball handler throw the ball against his legs, there is no kicking violation.

Further, I think it's a stretch to convert closing legs to intentionally striking the ball. So, without the defender moving his legs towards the ball, I don't see how you could describe that as striking the ball as opposed to the ball striking the player, which is not a kicking violation.

So, as described in the OP (legs closed then pass) you cannot possibly have a kicking violation. If, as is more likely, the order was actually the reverse of that, you probably didn't have a violation as the ball likely struck the leg rather than the leg striking the ball.

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

I'm willing to be the contrarian here.



If the defender closed his legs and then the ball handler throw the ball against his legs, there is no kicking violation.

Further, I think it's a stretch to convert closing legs to intentionally striking the ball. So, without the defender moving his legs towards the ball, I don't see how you could describe that as striking the ball as opposed to the ball striking the player, which is not a kicking violation.

So, as described in the OP (legs closed then pass) you cannot possibly have a kicking violation. If, as is more likely, the order was actually the reverse of that, you probably didn't have a violation as the ball likely struck the leg rather than the leg striking the ball.

In the same situation, if the defender jumped with their legs spread and the pass hit the front of the thigh of the defender, would you also have no violation?

[grunewar]

Each play needs to be evaluated on it's own. HTBT.

If I determine it's intentional, I'll call a kicked ball. If I have to explain my call to a player or coach, if asked, I will.

If I determine it's not intentional, I'll hold my whistle, and explain that call too - if asked.

I'm not "pole vaulting mouse turds" here. Moving on.........