The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 09:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Earth- For Now
Posts: 872
Video Request- Kansas/Oklahoma Shooting Foul followed by T

3.9 seconds left in the 1st half. Defender appears to make a legal play on the ball and the official, looking through the players, calls a shooting foul.
.
Kansas defender reaction warranted a T IMO but it was not called as Bill Self earns an easy T yelling in the calling officials face.

T was easy but I thought the shooting foul was a complete guess and a pretty egregious call.

Last edited by VaTerp; Tue Jan 05, 2016 at 10:52am.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 10:01pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: MD
Posts: 45
He was straight-lined and had no look at the play. So he must have guessed. If you see "asses and elbows", you have to "move to improve" is what my mentors have told me.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
__________________
"Officials can't know the rules. They must master the rules."
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 10:07pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by VaTerp View Post
3.9 seconds left in the 1st half. Defender appears to make a legal play on the ball and the official, looking through the players, calls a shooting foul.
.
Kansas defender reaction warranted a T IMO but it was not called as Bill Self earns an easy T yelling in the calling officials face.

T was easy but I thought the shooting foul was a complete guess and a pretty egregious call.
Pretty much my thoughts exactly. I was wondering how long it would take for a thread on this play to start.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 10:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,763
I usually know when I screw up. I'll give the player a little rope in an emotional game ...and the coach, if I'm next to him and he is in his box. Easy T here. He is on floor screaming at him. No choice but to T him. Referee called it calmly. Just another call.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 10:14pm
NFHS Official
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,732
Mason earned a T as well. If you notice Self was already in the guys ear before the play happened. He's trying to talk to Self, and officiate. He just missed that. Didn't have a good look at it.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 10:25pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,383
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
If you notice Self was already in the guys ear before the play happened. He's trying to talk to Self, and officiate. He just missed that. Didn't have a good look at it.
You know, some guys who work tableside C/T multi-task by talking to the coach while officiating all the time. And they're good at it. Gene Steretore is a master at it (sometimes I think he could lay out a picnic blanket at the coach's feet and still officiate). I'm smart enough to know I can't do that. Heck, I can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.

So if you can get away with it and keep getting plays right, why not? The lesson learned in this case may be that the final 10 seconds of a half isn't the best time for it.

Edit: I just saw the play from an angle by the table. You know, I don't think the C got straight-lined so much as he just anticipated. Rare at that level, but we all do it sometimes. Look on C's face was that of immediate regret. I had one like that about four days ago. My worst call of the year; fast break, I'm racing to new L, pull up jumper.....and air in the whistle too quickly. It was a great, clean block. Fiddlesticks.

Last edited by crosscountry55; Mon Jan 04, 2016 at 10:31pm. Reason: Watched the Play
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 10:27pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
You know, some guys who work tableside C/T multi-task by talking to the coach while officiating all the time. And they're good at it. Gene Steretore is a master at it (sometimes I think he could lay out a picnic blanket at the coach's feet and still officiate). I'm smart enough to know I can't do that. Heck, I can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.

So if you can get away with it and keep getting plays right, why not? The lesson learned in this case may be that the final 10 seconds of a half isn't the best time for it.
Sure, but that play could happen in the first ten seconds of the half too. Bottom line is it was a bad call and I'm sure he'l regret it when he sees it on video (perhaps he has already.)
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 10:36pm
beware big brother
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: illinois
Posts: 962
I missed the play and haven't seen the replay, but it doesn't matter how bad the call may have been. If Self was out of the box acting like an ass, then he deserved the T. He has been around long enough to know he will briefly get his say, and then it is time to move on.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 10:38pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 401
Dick Vitale said the official should've let Self vent a little more.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 10:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Earth- For Now
Posts: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
I usually know when I screw up. I'll give the player a little rope in an emotional game ...and the coach, if I'm next to him and he is in his box.
Yeah, when I know I kick one they get a little extra rope. Mason's reaction warranted a T but his teamate came over quickly and grabbed him and if I know I just kicked that call I have a hard time sticking the kid based on his immediate reaction there. Would have been interesting to see if the calling official or one of his partners would have got him if Self didnt create the easy T.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF View Post
Mason earned a T as well. If you notice Self was already in the guys ear before the play happened. He's trying to talk to Self, and officiate. He just missed that. Didn't have a good look at it.
Yes, Self was in his ear about something else as he made the call.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
You know, some guys who work tableside C/T multi-task by talking to the coach while officiating all the time. And they're good at it. Gene Steretore is a master at it (sometimes I think he could lay out a picnic blanket at the coach's feet and still officiate). I'm smart enough to know I can't do that. Heck, I can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.

So if you can get away with it and keep getting plays right, why not? The lesson learned in this case may be that the final 10 seconds of a half isn't the best time for it.

Edit: I just saw the play from an angle by the table. You know, I don't think the C got straight-lined so much as he just anticipated. Rare at that level, but we all do it sometimes. Look on C's face was that of immediate regret. I had one like that about four days ago. My worst call of the year; fast break, I'm racing to new L, pull up jumper.....and air in the whistle too quickly. It was a great, clean block. Fiddlesticks.
This may be the biggest takeaway from this play. Yes, talking to coaches, especially at this level, is a big part of officiating but you can't let it distract you from your primary job of calling plays. I'd bet that trying to multi-task here is what led to just reacting, putting air in the whistle, and guessing on a call. We've all done it. This was just a really bad one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
I missed the play and haven't seen the replay, but it doesn't matter how bad the call may have been. If Self was out of the box acting like an ass, then he deserved the T. He has been around long enough to know he will briefly get his say, and then it is time to move on.
I don't think any official in America sees Self's conduct and argues that he did not deserve a T there. That was as easy as it gets.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 11:13pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 28,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by bballref3966 View Post
Dick Vitale said the official should've let Self vent a little more.
One more reason not to listen to those guys in the first place.

Peace
__________________
"When the phone does not ring, the assignor is calling."
--Black

Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 04, 2016, 11:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 831
Quote:
Originally Posted by bballref3966 View Post
Dick Vitale said the official should've let Self vent a little more.
Vitale also rails about how Indiana should name a building after Bob Knight every time the Hoosiers come up in conversation. I love Dickie V, but the dead horse has been beaten.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 05, 2016, 04:35am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 73
I agree - looked like anticipation rather than positioning. Didn't help that coach was in his ear. Thought the quick T was great though. A) he deserved it, and that's enough, but B) coach was gonna keep going beserk if you "let him vent" - he went from 0 to 60 in no time and things woulda got ugly. Once that T came, he stepped back (and his assts helped him) from the precipice.

I woulda had a really hard time giving the player a T. He had a knee jerk reaction but it wasn't trying to show the official up as much as surprise/frustrations and he immediately got himself under control on the replay (with help from his teammates). Plus, coach woulda distracted me with his going beserk on the court. Almost like a baseball manager protecting his player by going out and getting rung.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 05, 2016, 05:36am
Show up, keep up, shut up
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,496
The official missed the play due to positioning, not anticipation IMO. He was stacked on the play and had to guess. I've seen the play a dozen times now and have no idea how to position yourself that fast to see between the players. This is a play that any ref could miss, depending on how lucky they were.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 05, 2016, 08:25am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 13,321
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny d View Post
I missed the play and haven't seen the replay, but it doesn't matter how bad the call may have been. If Self was out of the box acting like an ass, then he deserved the T. He has been around long enough to know he will briefly get his say, and then it is time to move on.
Foul call was bad, but Self's reaction was ridiculous and deserved a T. I think he did it on purpose to divert attention away from the player who could have earned a T with his reaction.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Kansas/Oklahoma State AremRed Basketball 17 Wed Mar 19, 2014 06:03pm
Video Request of Kansas at Oklahoma State game. Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Basketball 21 Mon Mar 03, 2014 12:41pm
Kansas at Oklahoma State psycho_ref Basketball 6 Sun Feb 24, 2008 01:38pm
Kansas/Oklahoma - announcers are stupid tomegun Basketball 13 Tue Feb 27, 2007 04:26pm
Kansas - Oklahoma canuckrefguy Basketball 0 Sun Feb 05, 2006 03:09pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:20am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1