Kansas/Oklahoma Shooting Foul followed by T

[bballref3966]

Dick Vitale said the official should've let Self vent a little more.

[VaTerp]

Originally Posted by BigCat

I usually know when I screw up. I'll give the player a little rope in an emotional game ...and the coach, if I'm next to him and he is in his box.

Yeah, when I know I kick one they get a little extra rope. Mason's reaction warranted a T but his teamate came over quickly and grabbed him and if I know I just kicked that call I have a hard time sticking the kid based on his immediate reaction there. Would have been interesting to see if the calling official or one of his partners would have got him if Self didnt create the easy T.

Originally Posted by OKREF

Mason earned a T as well. If you notice Self was already in the guys ear before the play happened. He's trying to talk to Self, and officiate. He just missed that. Didn't have a good look at it.

Yes, Self was in his ear about something else as he made the call.

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

You know, some guys who work tableside C/T multi-task by talking to the coach while officiating all the time. And they're good at it. Gene Steretore is a master at it (sometimes I think he could lay out a picnic blanket at the coach's feet and still officiate). I'm smart enough to know I can't do that. Heck, I can barely walk and chew gum at the same time.

So if you can get away with it and keep getting plays right, why not? The lesson learned in this case may be that the final 10 seconds of a half isn't the best time for it.

Edit: I just saw the play from an angle by the table. You know, I don't think the C got straight-lined so much as he just anticipated. Rare at that level, but we all do it sometimes. Look on C's face was that of immediate regret. I had one like that about four days ago. My worst call of the year; fast break, I'm racing to new L, pull up jumper.....and air in the whistle too quickly. It was a great, clean block. Fiddlesticks.

This may be the biggest takeaway from this play. Yes, talking to coaches, especially at this level, is a big part of officiating but you can't let it distract you from your primary job of calling plays. I'd bet that trying to multi-task here is what led to just reacting, putting air in the whistle, and guessing on a call. We've all done it. This was just a really bad one.

Originally Posted by johnny d

I missed the play and haven't seen the replay, but it doesn't matter how bad the call may have been. If Self was out of the box acting like an ass, then he deserved the T. He has been around long enough to know he will briefly get his say, and then it is time to move on.

I don't think any official in America sees Self's conduct and argues that he did not deserve a T there. That was as easy as it gets.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Dick Vitale said the official should've let Self vent a little more.

One more reason not to listen to those guys in the first place.

Peace

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by bballref3966

Dick Vitale said the official should've let Self vent a little more.

Vitale also rails about how Indiana should name a building after Bob Knight every time the Hoosiers come up in conversation. I love Dickie V, but the dead horse has been beaten.

[wildcatter]

I agree - looked like anticipation rather than positioning. Didn't help that coach was in his ear. Thought the quick T was great though. A) he deserved it, and that's enough, but B) coach was gonna keep going beserk if you "let him vent" - he went from 0 to 60 in no time and things woulda got ugly. Once that T came, he stepped back (and his assts helped him) from the precipice.

I woulda had a really hard time giving the player a T. He had a knee jerk reaction but it wasn't trying to show the official up as much as surprise/frustrations and he immediately got himself under control on the replay (with help from his teammates). Plus, coach woulda distracted me with his going beserk on the court. Almost like a baseball manager protecting his player by going out and getting rung.

The official missed the play due to positioning, not anticipation IMO. He was stacked on the play and had to guess. I've seen the play a dozen times now and have no idea how to position yourself that fast to see between the players. This is a play that any ref could miss, depending on how lucky they were.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

The official missed the play due to positioning, not anticipation IMO. He was stacked on the play and had to guess. I've seen the play a dozen times now and have no idea how to position yourself that fast to see between the players. This is a play that any ref could miss, depending on how lucky they were.

Get where you need to be to referee that play, that's what one of my supervisor's preaches.

[Remington]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Get where you need to be to referee that play, that's what one of my supervisor's preaches.

I agree with this (obviously), but I watched this game and kept rewinding the play and there was no where for the official to go. I think he started a little to high on the play, but that is one where you just don't get a good look. To truly get a good look he would have had to be very low near the endline (and there wasn't time for that) or high side and out onto the floor 8 feet. There were players on his high side so he would have been directly in the way had the OU guard passed the ball.

I like discussions like these as long as we don't rip this very talented official (which we aren't). It was a play he just shouldn't have put air in his whistle because he couldn't see it. It's no different than when a player is going away from you and he/she may travel but you can't see whether the ball is held or not. I made a similar call like this last weekend. Mine was correct (from video) but I couldn't see it. The coach jumped me a bit on it and said how can you call that you were completely straight lined. It didn't warrant a T but I quickly said "we can talk about it next time I'm by you." It was a collegiate men's game so I went away from the table after reporting. I got near the coach about 2 transitions later and told him he was correct, I didn't have a good enough look at it and it wouldn't happen again tonight. He said, "well, the video board showed you were right but I appreciate you admitting you were straight lined. I just wish more refs would be honest with us."

I got very lucky and the minute I hit the whistle I knew I was guessing. I'm actually quite good at holding the whistle in that but I just made an error. I wonder what the coach would have said if the video board showed I completely kicked the call. I would have had the same response, but I don't think he would have been so polite with our follow up conversation........

[VaTerp]

Tried to edit thread title to indicate video request.

Would greatly appreciate one of our esteemed embedders work here. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Remington

I agree with this (obviously), but I watched this game and kept rewinding the play and there was no where for the official to go. I think he started a little to high on the play, but that is one where you just don't get a good look. To truly get a good look he would have had to be very low near the endline (and there wasn't time for that) or high side and out onto the floor 8 feet. There were players on his high side so he would have been directly in the way had the OU guard passed the ball.

Agree, there was no good position for Slot in the amount of time he had to adjust.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Get where you need to be to referee that play, that's what one of my supervisor's preaches.

Please go watch the play again and tell me where Slot needs to be in order to see that play.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Please go watch the play again and tell me where Slot needs to be in order to see that play.

Considering the clock is running down, and one of the best shooters in the nation has the ball, and where that official is standing, he should have stepped out on to the court so he could get a clear view of the shooting hand.

If he had started at home base, FTLE, he could have had an opportunity to step down to the sideline and look back through the play.

Either one would have taken some nimble movement and he may still have got the play wrong, but either is preferable to just standing there, allowing the stack to happen, then blowing your whistle on a foul that wasn't there. By staying stationary he has no credibility on this call b/c everyone knows he couldn't see it from where he was standing.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by AremRed

This is a play that any ref could miss, depending on how lucky they were.

True, but if you miss it (i.e. you're not sure), you don't put air in the whistle. That's what tells me that he either anticipated or guessed.

Still a great official. Just a regrettable moment. It happens.


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[MD Longhorn]

I'm normally the last guy in the room to complain about officiating... but there were a ton of cringe-worthy calls (both ways) in this game. I know these guys are the top of the pile, ref-wise... but it felt like they were overmatched in this one, and it got worse as they got tired.

I don't know that they cost either team the game, per se, but I don't feel like we got to see who would have really won. I feel like we, the fans, got short-changed.

The non-call on the steal at the end was nearly unforgivable, though - the defender contacted the inbounder twice, hard - no call on either.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I'm normally the last guy in the room to complain about officiating... but there were a ton of cringe-worthy calls (both ways) in this game. I know these guys are the top of the pile, ref-wise... but it felt like they were overmatched in this one, and it got worse as they got tired.



I don't know that they cost either team the game, per se, but I don't feel like we got to see who would have really won. I feel like we, the fans, got short-changed.



The non-call on the steal at the end was nearly unforgivable, though - the defender contacted the inbounder twice, hard - no call on either.

It seems like a game of this magnitude can make even the most seasoned crew tend to over-officiate. Subconscious stuff. Nice to know the next time you kick a call that D1 officials are also human just like you.

Tough one on that last throw-in. Seriously, how many of us would have the guts to make a call in that situation?


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