Great vengeance and furious anger...

[JetMetFan]

...from a state association regarding uniform rules:

I would ask the rules interpreters...to please share this with all of the assignors...and ask them, no tell them that they need to send an email to all...officials (reminding them that our state association) compels the officials to enforce all of the rules, not just some, especially the uniform rule and the coaches' box rule. We covered these rules extensively as we went around the state and we made it very clear that the rules are to be administrated as we explained.

I am close to sending a note to all 70 or more basketball observers telling them to get the name(s) of any officials (who do not) enforce all of the rules and that I will make a decision that may impact their use in state tournament games.

This is a sad, very sad commentary about the basketball officials in (our state that our association) may have to take these kinds of measures. However, I will do what I have to do.

As for school(s) that will not put the coaches box down on their courts, both team's coaches have to remain seated for the entire game. Tell them that right from the beginning of every game, freshman, jv, and varsity. Let the AD and coach figure it out.

And we're only a few weeks into the season. I edited for grammar as much as I could but the sentiment wasn't lost.

[Raymond]

At least there is no ambiguity about what is expected. And better this come out a few weeks into the season rather than with only a few weeks left.

[packersowner]

I like the part about the coaching box. It's not just officials that need this reminder, game management needs a reminder as well. There are so many of these types of things that get lost.


Add to the list:

- having your court marked with an X
- your scorer wearing stripes
- having your a coaching box marked (as noted)


My only problem is that now I have a visiting team coach who can't stand because the AD from the home school can't find some tape.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by packersowner

My only problem is that now I have a visiting team coach who can't stand because the AD from the home school can't find some tape.

Yeah, I can see that but at least it's a shared pain.

I just had a game with this association Tuesday. A team wearing orange jerseys walked in with players wearing:

*White t-shirts
*Black t-shirts
*White tights
*Black tights

As I addressed it with the head coach he said - calmly and with no disrespect - "Okay, so we're enforcing the rule today. I got it." That's even more frustrating because it means he knows the rule and won't do anything about it unless told by the officials.

Meantime, the opponent - in its home whites - had a player with a pink headband and a camouflage headband. My first thought when I saw them was, "Who the heck had these kids in their first few games of the season?"

On another note, I received an email today from the same association reminding officials they are not allowed to wear fitbits on their wrists during games. Seriously? We have met the enemy and it is us...

[Kansas Ref]

I expected the issue of "fashion policing" to arise this season because some refs are prone to say in pregame with captains and coaches: "...well, your undershirts [or compression tights] are not the right [matching] color, but we're going to let it pass this time--but try to fix it in the future."
This type of leniency [i.e., 'rule kicking'] makes me look like a gestappo when I have a game and I tell the Coach that A1 and B3 can't participate until their uni' issues are fixed. Then Coach replies: "well, the refs from last week were OK with these unis". Grrrrrrrr!!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

I expected the issue of "fashion policing" to arise this season because some refs are prone to say in pregame with captains and coaches: "...well, your undershirts [or compression tights] are not the right [matching] color, but we're going to let it pass this time--but try to fix it in the future."
This type of leniency [i.e., 'rule kicking'] makes me look like a gestappo when I have a game and I tell the Coach that A1 and B3 can't participate until their uni' issues are fixed. Then Coach replies: "well, the refs from last week were OK with these unis". Grrrrrrrr!!

I don't worry about the coaches' responses. I've had multiple games this season, college and HS, where we've had to get players to correct fashion errors. We've had no issues in getting the situations corrected.

[deecee]

Who cares about coaches response. When a coach says something like, "well in our last game" or "the other refs" my response now is short. "I don't care." I used to think I needed to say more than that but I don't. It also is a bit annoying to me when partners try and "smooth" it over with coaches over this. It sounds so apologetic.

I tell the players or coaches I don't care what they do with their uniform. They just may not be allowed to play. It's their choice which direction they want to go.

[so cal lurker]

Fashion rules have been totally unenforced in the JV tournaments I've watched over the past several weeks. (White under dark; black under white; variety of colors on the same team . . . I only know these rules from lurking here, but I'm pretty sure every single fashion rule has been violated in the current tournament -- except headbands, perhaps.)

And the suspicious part of me wonders if it was coincidence that one team's best player was wearing long sleeved black shirt under his red uniform to make him easier to identify . . .

But I really don't think it is fair to blame coaches, whether they've heard of the rule or not. If the refs are too darned lazy to enforce it (or, perhaps for tournaments, been told not to), why should the coaches spend any time worrying about it?

[BatteryPowered]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Fashion rules have been totally unenforced in the JV tournaments I've watched over the past several weeks. (White under dark; black under white; variety of colors on the same team . . . I only know these rules from lurking here, but I'm pretty sure every single fashion rule has been violated in the current tournament -- except headbands, perhaps.)

And the suspicious part of me wonders if it was coincidence that one team's best player was wearing long sleeved black shirt under his red uniform to make him easier to identify . . .

But I really don't think it is fair to blame coaches, whether they've heard of the rule or not. If the refs are too darned lazy to enforce it (or, perhaps for tournaments, been told not to), why should the coaches spend any time worrying about it?

In my area, and I am told in many others, the fashion rules are not strictly enforced for sub-varsity. For that matter, during non-district varsity games (particularly early in the season) they get a "warning" and the rules is explained so they understand when the rule in enforced later in the year. It's just the way the "powers that be" want them handled here.

When it comes to the box, if it is not marked on the floor we are told to let the association president and assignor know after the game so they can address it with the school. Of course, that is probably because in virtually every case it is strongly suggested that as long as the coaches are only communicating with their team to allow leeway when it comes to the box. If a coach starts becoming a problem that is when we are to enforce the box. Honestly, I cannot remember the last time I had a problem with a coach straying very far (read more than a couple of feet) from the box in any high school game.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

I expected the issue of "fashion policing" to arise this season because some refs are prone to say in pregame with captains and coaches: "...well, your undershirts [or compression tights] are not the right [matching] color, but we're going to let it pass this time--but try to fix it in the future."
This type of leniency [i.e., 'rule kicking'] makes me look like a gestappo when I have a game and I tell the Coach that A1 and B3 can't participate until their uni' issues are fixed. Then Coach replies: "well, the refs from last week were OK with these unis". Grrrrrrrr!!

And that's when you say, "Those officials were scheduled for your game today, but had to attend some rules training regarding proper uniforms tonight instead, so you're stuck with me tonight."

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

Fashion rules have been totally unenforced in the JV tournaments I've watched over the past several weeks. (White under dark; black under white; variety of colors on the same team . . . I only know these rules from lurking here, but I'm pretty sure every single fashion rule has been violated in the current tournament -- except headbands, perhaps.)

And the suspicious part of me wonders if it was coincidence that one team's best player was wearing long sleeved black shirt under his red uniform to make him easier to identify . . .

But I really don't think it is fair to blame coaches, whether they've heard of the rule or not. If the refs are too darned lazy to enforce it (or, perhaps for tournaments, been told not to), why should the coaches spend any time worrying about it?

It's not fair to blame the coaches?

Coaches are responsible for knowing the rules. It is not up to the officials to teach them.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

It's not fair to blame the coaches?

Coaches are responsible for knowing the rules. It is not up to the officials to teach them.

It has nothing to do with "teaching" them. As in the OP, many may well know but worry about other things -- coach behaved perfectly appropriately when told it needed to be fixed. But do you expect a defender to not use an illegal arm bar when one is applied to him each time down the court? Do you expect a player to not go into the lane early when the ref is not calling it when the other team does? Players and coaches adjust to what is enforced. If the referees in the area choose not to enforce a rule, why should the coach spend his time worrying about unilaterally complying with that instead of the myriad other things he has to think about? As soon as refs in an area enforce with a modicum of consistency, the problem goes away completely.

[JetMetFan]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

It has nothing to do with "teaching" them. As in the OP, many may well know but worry about other things -- coach behaved perfectly appropriately when told it needed to be fixed. But do you expect a defender to not use an illegal arm bar when one is applied to him each time down the court? Do you expect a player to not go into the lane early when the ref is not calling it when the other team does? Players and coaches adjust to what is enforced. If the referees in the area choose not to enforce a rule, why should the coach spend his time worrying about unilaterally complying with that instead of the myriad other things he has to think about? As soon as refs in an area enforce with a modicum of consistency, the problem goes away completely.

Let's just say it's a problem that's equally shared. We have our job to do but in the myriad of rules that exist in the sport, the uniform rule is one of the easiest for coaches to remember. Put it this way, do you see many or any teams with illegal uniform numbers? If you can handle that one, you can handle wrist bands, etc.

I've had the discussion with a few coaches about the fashion police stuff. I've told them I understand they may get spotty enforcement but if you show up assuming the rule will be enforced there's no need to worry about cutting short your pre-game time to have kids change their clothes.

One of my happiest moments - I'm easy to please - this season was when I notified a team wearing white/purple its headbands were out of whack (some kids had purple, some had white). Their volunteer assistant laid into the players because she had bought all of them appropriate headbands - white for home games, purple for road games ("Didn't I tell you all that we wear the headband that's the color of our jersey!"). She made them ALL take off their headbands.

As for us not doing our part, that burns me up even more. I've had more than a few partners toss me under the bus ("Well coach, my partner said you have to..."). I've also written notes to assignors about partners who do that. You screw me on uniforms, how can I trust you if things get hot later in the game?

[BryanV21]

Originally Posted by so cal lurker

It has nothing to do with "teaching" them. As in the OP, many may well know but worry about other things -- coach behaved perfectly appropriately when told it needed to be fixed. But do you expect a defender to not use an illegal arm bar when one is applied to him each time down the court? Do you expect a player to not go into the lane early when the ref is not calling it when the other team does? Players and coaches adjust to what is enforced. If the referees in the area choose not to enforce a rule, why should the coach spend his time worrying about unilaterally complying with that instead of the myriad other things he has to think about? As soon as refs in an area enforce with a modicum of consistency, the problem goes away completely.

They know the rule. If they simply comply with it then they will never have to worry about who enforces it or who doesn't.

I understand what you're saying but I'll be damned if I'm going to feel bad for them when I enforce a rule they do or at least should know.

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[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by BryanV21

They know the rule. If they simply comply with it then they will never have to worry about who enforces it or who doesn't.

I understand what you're saying but I'll be damned if I'm going to feel bad for them when I enforce a rule they do or at least should know.

Who said anything about feeling bad for them? My only point is that refs shouldn't be angry or irritated about coaches who don't spend their time on it when their experience is that the refs don't bother to enforce it. The ones to be irritated at are the other refs who don't bother because those refs are teaching the coaches not to care about the rule.

I would no more be irritated at a coach for this than I would that the coach doesn't call out in the game, "Hey! Johnny! You traveled! I know the ref missed it, but that was against the rules, so you need to give the other team the ball. Don't to it again!"