Great vengeance and furious anger...

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by packersowner

My only problem is that now I have a visiting team coach who can't stand because the AD from the home school can't find some tape.

Here's what we do in Connecticut:

Coaching Box must be marked. If home coach, and/or home management, refuse to designate a coaching box
with tape, the home team will not use a coaching box for that game. However, the visiting team will be
allowed a coaching box. Notify Board Secretary, or Commissioner.

[packersowner]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

I expected the issue of "fashion policing" to arise this season because some refs are prone to say in pregame with captains and coaches: "...well, your undershirts [or compression tights] are not the right [matching] color, but we're going to let it pass this time--but try to fix it in the future."
This type of leniency [i.e., 'rule kicking'] makes me look like a gestappo when I have a game and I tell the Coach that A1 and B3 can't participate until their uni' issues are fixed. Then Coach replies: "well, the refs from last week were OK with these unis". Grrrrrrrr!!

I prefer, to never be the last crew

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Here's what we do in Connecticut:

Coaching Box must be marked. If home coach, and/or home management, refuse to designate a coaching box
with tape, the home team will not use a coaching box for that game. However, the visiting team will be
allowed a coaching box. Notify Board Secretary, or Commissioner.

This is surprising to me. Not only does it seem unfair (even if the home team could potentially fix the problem) but how does the visiting coach use a coaches box that doesn't exist? How do you know if he is outside of where the box is supposed to be or not?

[SCalScoreKeeper]

At our school the officials mostly just count 7 chairs from the chair closest to the table and call that the box.

Originally Posted by frezer11

This is surprising to me. Not only does it seem unfair (even if the home team could potentially fix the problem) but how does the visiting coach use a coaches box that doesn't exist? How do you know if he is outside of where the box is supposed to be or not?

Sounds like this refers to a situation where the home people have marked a box for the visiting coach but refuse to mark one for the home coach.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by AremRed

Sounds like this refers to a situation where the home people have marked a box for the visiting coach but refuse to mark one for the home coach.

No, it's a situation where there are no coaching boxes mark on the court. Virginia also tells us to adjudicate the same way, home coach sits, visiting coach gets to wander.

[BDevil15]

Originally Posted by deecee

Who cares about coaches response. When a coach says something like, "well in our last game" or "the other refs" my response now is short. "I don't care." I used to think I needed to say more than that but I don't. It also is a bit annoying to me when partners try and "smooth" it over with coaches over this. It sounds so apologetic.

I tell the players or coaches I don't care what they do with their uniform. They just may not be allowed to play. It's their choice which direction they want to go.

I know it's easy to call these rules Fashion rules and treat them like they are a waste of time but there are reasons for players to wear tights and undershirts. If there wasn't a reason for them it would be very easy for coaches to say to their players that they can't wear these items and just resolve the problem. However, when you have kids geared in exactly the same way in two different games in the same section/association and officials are not enforcing the rules the same way, imagine how frustrating that is to coaches. Coaches don't want to be worrying about this nonsense any more than you do and when officials aren't all on the same page "well last nights officials said this" is actually a valid reason for confusion and non-compliance.

Every game is officiated differently and we can deal with that as a skill to teach our players, but when the rules are different on a given night it becomes absurd, and rather than looking in the mirror and realizing that this problem is not always on the coach, you aren't helping anybody.

I know some coaches are complete morons and act like buffoons and treat officials poorly, I know that some coaches don't have a great understanding of the rules or bother to know these things and keep track of changes, but that doesn't mean that all coaches are trying to slip one past the officials when they aren't in compliance, some are just genuinely confused and want it to be handled better by teams and officials alike.

We are almost half way through our season and I still see Varsity teams who are playing games in illegal uniforms, and although that may be a coaches "Fault", it still shouldn't be happening and that is the officials responsibility.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by BDevil15

...However, when you have kids geared in exactly the same way in two different games in the same section/association and officials are not enforcing the rules the same way, imagine how frustrating that is to coaches. Coaches don't want to be worrying about this nonsense any more than you do and when officials aren't all on the same page "well last nights officials said this" is actually a valid reason for confusion and non-compliance.

Valid reason for confusion, yes.

Valid reason for non-compliance, NO!

Where I'm at, we have a couple of tournaments before Christmas, but the season doesn't begin in earnest at the high school level until after Christmas break is over. We make it a point to educate as much as possible during these pre-season tournies, not just on the uniform rules, but on the rule changes and points of emphasis as well. We have one official in particular in our association who advocates this, saying that the more fouls we call NOW, early in the season, the quicker the coaches and players will get the clue and make some adjustments so we aren't having to make those calls as often when we get to March.

[Dad]

Originally Posted by BDevil15

I know it's easy to call these rules Fashion rules and treat them like they are a waste of time but there are reasons for players to wear tights and undershirts. If there wasn't a reason for them it would be very easy for coaches to say to their players that they can't wear these items and just resolve the problem. However, when you have kids geared in exactly the same way in two different games in the same section/association and officials are not enforcing the rules the same way, imagine how frustrating that is to coaches. Coaches don't want to be worrying about this nonsense any more than you do and when officials aren't all on the same page "well last nights officials said this" is actually a valid reason for confusion and non-compliance.

Every game is officiated differently and we can deal with that as a skill to teach our players, but when the rules are different on a given night it becomes absurd, and rather than looking in the mirror and realizing that this problem is not always on the coach, you aren't helping anybody.

I know some coaches are complete morons and act like buffoons and treat officials poorly, I know that some coaches don't have a great understanding of the rules or bother to know these things and keep track of changes, but that doesn't mean that all coaches are trying to slip one past the officials when they aren't in compliance, some are just genuinely confused and want it to be handled better by teams and officials alike.

We are almost half way through our season and I still see Varsity teams who are playing games in illegal uniforms, and although that may be a coaches "Fault", it still shouldn't be happening and that is the officials responsibility.

I've never had coaches give me an (bad)attitude over uniforms. Maybe they'll ask a question about the rule, and after I give them a quick rule answer we're done. I'm not sure how your association(s) work, but if uniforms aren't enforced around here the assigner is giving you a call and asking why he's assigning you games.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No, it's a situation where there are no coaching boxes mark on the court. Virginia also tells us to adjudicate the same way, home coach sits, visiting coach gets to wander.

Same in Wisconsin.

[so cal lurker]

Originally Posted by Rich

Same in Wisconsin.

Pretty good way to make sure they get marked!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by frezer11

This is surprising to me. Not only does it seem unfair (even if the home team could potentially fix the problem) but how does the visiting coach use a coaches box that doesn't exist? How do you know if he is outside of where the box is supposed to be or not?

Why would you worry about it being unfair when the home team is fully responsible for ensuring it doesn't get that far?

[frezer11]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Why would you worry about it being unfair when the home team is fully responsible for ensuring it doesn't get that far?

There may be an argument to make as to whether or not this situation is fair, I still think that it isn't, but if you're asking why should I worry about it? Because that's what we do! The rules are put together to make the game fair on both sides, and it seems to me that this ignores that aspect, not to mention it ignores what is specifically written in the rule book. Again though, regardless of who's responsibility it is, in the game itself, I think it is unfair to allow one coach to use the coaching box, and the other not to. Especially if the box isn't marked for either one.

All that said, I'm not from Connecticut, maybe some of you can comment on this, but I assume this is at most a one-time issue? Seems like the first time this happens, the lines are going to get put down before the next game! Is it allowable for the box to be put down in the middle of the game? Say they find the floor tape 4 minutes in to the first quarter, and want to put the boxes down. Is this allowable in your state?

[bob jenkins]

Not allowed to add the boxes after the game.

And the rule is "fair" because somewhere there's some coach A who doesn't mind sitting and knows the opposing coach B likes to stand so coach A purposely does not have boxes marked to get an advantage.

The home team is supposed to comply with the rules and if the state says "we use a box" then the home team should be the only ones to suffer if they don't have boxes.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by frezer11

There may be an argument to make as to whether or not this situation is fair, I still think that it isn't, but if you're asking why should I worry about it? Because that's what we do! The rules are put together to make the game fair on both sides, and it seems to me that this ignores that aspect, not to mention it ignores what is specifically written in the rule book. Again though, regardless of who's responsibility it is, in the game itself, I think it is unfair to allow one coach to use the coaching box, and the other not to. Especially if the box isn't marked for either one.

All that said, I'm not from Connecticut, maybe some of you can comment on this, but I assume this is at most a one-time issue? Seems like the first time this happens, the lines are going to get put down before the next game! Is it allowable for the box to be put down in the middle of the game? Say they find the floor tape 4 minutes in to the first quarter, and want to put the boxes down. Is this allowable in your state?

I really don't concern myself with fairness when there is a clearly stated procedure to handle a certain situation. In my state, Virginia, they feel it is appropriate for the home team to lose its box while the visiting team keeps theirs when the home team fails to fulfill its responsibilities on this matter. The "unfair" adjudication is in place to get those irresponsible (or lazy) schools to get their act together.