Count the basket?

[rbruno]

Had this happen tonight in a summer league game. Think I/we got it correct but can't find the rule reference.
Player A-1 shoots a three point shot that goes in. While the ball is in the air player A-2 fouls B-1 who was fighting through A-2's screen.
We counted the basket and called the foul on A-2 as a common foul. Gave the ball to Team B at the endline.
Figured that while the ball was in the air you can't have a team control foul.
Should the basket have counted?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by rbruno

Had this happen tonight in a summer league game. Think I/we got it correct but can't find the rule reference.
Player A-1 shoots a three point shot that goes in. While the ball is in the air player A-2 fouls B-1 who was fighting through A-2's screen.
We counted the basket and called the foul on A-2 as a common foul. Gave the ball to Team B at the endline.
Figured that while the ball was in the air you can't have a team control foul.
Should the basket have counted?

You are correct that A2's CF was not a TCF. But I am having a hard time visualizing B1's fighting through A2's screen not being a foul on B1 instead of a foul by A2.

MTD, Sr.

Originally Posted by rbruno

Think I/we got it correct but can't find the rule reference.

That's cuz it's one of those plays (read: every play) which draws from several different rules at once. They can be rather intricate at times.

This play has a pretty easy answer: after the release of the shot there is no team control. Thus, if an offensive foul happens after the release then you penalize the foul and count the bucket if applicable. If it's a defensive foul then penalize the foul and count the bucket if the offensive player had begun the shooting motion. The shooter gets continuation during a defensive foul. Make sense?

[rbruno]

My language didn't really describe what I saw, I think. I believe A-2 was trying to screen B-1 from behind to protect the shooter at the top of the key. I saw him push B-1 and hence the whistle. Actually it is a mechanics problem also as I was trying to keep my eyes on the shooter until he returned to the floor and the fouling action was there also but not against the shooter. I would expect that my partner could have helped there but he didn't so there was confusion by both teams as to who the foul was on A-2 or B-1.

[bballref3966]

A foul while the ball is in flight on a try/tap never causes the ball to become dead, with the exception of a player-control foul committed by an airborne shooter.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by rbruno

My language didn't really describe what I saw, I think. I believe A-2 was trying to screen B-1 from behind to protect the shooter at the top of the key. I saw him push B-1 and hence the whistle. Actually it is a mechanics problem also as I was trying to keep my eyes on the shooter until he returned to the floor and the fouling action was there also but not against the shooter. I would expect that my partner could have helped there but he didn't so there was confusion by both teams as to who the foul was on A-2 or B-1.

If the shot was already released, I'm wondering why B1 would still be trying to get to A1.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rbruno

My language didn't really describe what I saw, I think. I believe A-2 was trying to screen B-1 from behind to protect the shooter at the top of the key. I saw him push B-1 and hence the whistle. Actually it is a mechanics problem also as I was trying to keep my eyes on the shooter until he returned to the floor and the fouling action was there also but not against the shooter. I would expect that my partner could have helped there but he didn't so there was confusion by both teams as to who the foul was on A-2 or B-1.

As BNR alludes to, the question that matters here is whether the shot had been released by the time A2 committed the foul. Pay no attention to the timing of the whistle.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Adam

As BNR alludes to, the question that matters here is whether the shot had been released by the time A2 committed the foul. Pay no attention to the timing of the whistle.

In NCAAW, the "time of the whistle" is "the time of the foul", by definition /interpretation.

So, A1 begins the motion, A2 illegally contacts B2, A1 releases the ball, whistle blows -- count the basket, enforce A2's foul.

[HokiePaul]

Originally Posted by rbruno

Gave the ball to Team B at the endline.

I believe the throw in would be at the spot nearest the foul. This could be the endline (and the thrower could run), but it isn't always.

Of course it's the off-season and I could be a bit rusty on my rules--someone will correct me I'm sure if this is wrong.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by HokiePaul

I believe the throw in would be at the spot nearest the foul. This could be the endline (and the thrower could run), but it isn't always.

Of course it's the off-season and I could be a bit rusty on my rules--someone will correct me I'm sure if this is wrong.

7.5.7 E

if the ball goes in/basket counts (and B is not in the bonus) their ensuing throw in is from the end line and they can run. even if the foul by the team A teammate is at the top of key. thx

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BigCat

7.5.7 E

if the ball goes in/basket counts (and B is not in the bonus) their ensuing throw in is from the end line and they can run. even if the foul by the team A teammate is at the top of key. thx

That is not correct. The proper procedure is to inbound the ball at the spot of the foul. In this case it could be the endline but it doesn't have to be. The inbounds location for ANY common foul IS spot closest to the foul.

IF the ensuing throw in is on the endline then the team has permission to run the endline due to the exception granted on fouls/violations by the defending team on endline throw ins after a made basket.

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by deecee

That is not correct. The proper procedure is to inbound the ball at the spot of the foul. In this case it could be the endline but it doesn't have to be. The inbounds location for ANY common foul IS spot closest to the foul.

IF the ensuing throw in is on the endline then the team has permission to run the endline due to the exception granted on fouls/violations by the defending team on endline throw ins after a made basket.

i just remembered the case play and it says if teammate fouls after ball in flight and it goes in, throw in is on end line and team can run. it doesnt say the closest spot to teammates foul is end line. i dont like to assume facts in the plays that arent given but i dont feel to strongly about it either way.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BigCat

7.5.7 E... if the ball goes in/basket counts (and B is not in the bonus) their ensuing throw in is from the end line and they can run. even if the foul by the team A teammate is at the top of key.

7.5.7 SITUATION E: While A1's three-point field-goal attempt is in flight, A3
fouls B1 (B is not in the bonus) near the bottom block area. The three-point field goal attempt is successful. RULING: Score the three-point goal for A1. Team B will be permitted to run the end line on the ensuing throw-in. (6-7-7 Exception 2)

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

7.5.7 SITUATION E: While A1's three-point field-goal attempt is in flight, A3
fouls B1 (B is not in the bonus) near the bottom block area. The three-point field goal attempt is successful. RULING: Score the three-point goal for A1. Team B will be permitted to run the end line on the ensuing throw-in. (6-7-7 Exception 2)

interesting, my 7.5.7E does not say "near bottom block area." mine doesnt mention a location.

my Ipad version. i will check the paper back...if i can find them....

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BigCat

i just remembered the case play and it says if teammate fouls after ball in flight and it goes in, throw in is on end line and team can run. it doesnt say the closest spot to teammates foul is end line. i dont like to assume facts in the plays that arent given but i dont feel to strongly about it either way.

Don't overthink this. The inbounds for ANY common foul is nearest where the foul occured. It could be in a double foul situation where the POI is a ball in flight then on a made basket the inbounds would be endline where the team can run.