count the basket or not

[scat03]

team A has a sob at half court with 4 seconds on the clock, i administer the ball to player out of bounds and she throws the ball in play and i start a silent count to myself. when i get to 4 seconds , iam waiting for the horn and no horn, i get to 6 sec , shot goes up and the horn goes off at my count of 7sec. and the shot goes in. coach of the opposing team is vey upset that the clock was not started properly. what authority does the official have on counting the shot or on the clock at that point.... this is what i did in that game.... we went over to the table and spoke to the clock operator and he said the he in fact made an error and started the clock late. my partner then erased the two points and ended the quarter. yes or no

[tjones1]

5-10-2

5.10.2 Situation

[Adam]

I've done this. I always count in this situation, and the official can blow the whistle with definite knowledge to end the quarter.

Count to four, blow the whistle and announce the quarter has ended.

[Mregor]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've done this. I always count in this situation, and the official can blow the whistle with definite knowledge to end the quarter.

Count to four, blow the whistle and announce the quarter has ended.

Much easier your way than taking the points off the board.

[btaylor64]

why not check the clock as soon as the ball is thrown in? It is just a quick peek and if it doesn't start i think you still have to let the play finish out. Then you have your own knowledge, not just the operator, who might be too egotistical to say he/she started too late. If there is a PA announcer you tell him/her to announce that the clock had started late and the officials have ruled the basket no good. Snaqwells way might be easier but he is killing the play with time on the clock, even though in your head you know the time has actually passed.

Although i have done what snaqs has done in AAU and rec games, but only in sitches where the outcome is not affected.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

why not check the clock as soon as the ball is thrown in? It is just a quick peek and if it doesn't start i think you still have to let the play finish out. Then you have your own knowledge, not just the operator, who might be too egotistical to say he/she started too late. If there is a PA announcer you tell him/her to announce that the clock had started late and the officials have ruled the basket no good. Snaqwells way might be easier but he is killing the play with time on the clock, even though in your head you know the time has actually passed.

Although i have done what snaqs has done in AAU and rec games, but only in sitches where the outcome is not affected.

I did it in a varsity boys game, end of first quarter. My partner, our area director and representative for the state's IAABO, who was placed on my game specifically to evaluate me, said it showed great game awareness. I'd do it again.

I'm still not sure what you would have done differently than I did.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I've done this. I always count in this situation, and the official can blow the whistle with definite knowledge to end the quarter.

Count to four, blow the whistle and announce the quarter has ended.

If the clock doesn't show 1/10s of seconds, and idicates 0:04, then there is AT LEAST 4 seconds left (could be up to 4.9). So, you should count to 5.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

if the clock doesn't show 1/10s of seconds, and idicates 0:04, then there is at least 4 seconds left (could be up to 4.9). So, you should count to 5.

+1

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If the clock doesn't show 1/10s of seconds, and indicates 0:04, then there is AT LEAST 4 seconds left (could be up to 4.9). So, you should count to 5.

Not necessarily. "4" on the clock could be 4.0-4.9 or it could be 3.1-4.0. Some round up, some round down.

If the horn immediately sounds when the clock switches to 0 (which I find more common), it will be the latter...3.1-4.0.

[cdoug]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not necessarily. "4" on the clock could be 4.0-4.9 or it could be 3.1-4.0. Some round up, some round down.

If the horn immediately sounds when the clock switches to 0 (which I find more common), it will be the latter...3.1-4.0.

Either way I'd probably count an extra second just in case I accidentally counted too fast.

[deecee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not necessarily. "4" on the clock could be 4.0-4.9 or it could be 3.1-4.0. Some round up, some round down.

If the horn immediately sounds when the clock switches to 0 (which I find more common), it will be the latter...3.1-4.0.

How can the clock be from 3-4.9? thats a screwy clock

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Not necessarily. "4" on the clock could be 4.0-4.9 or it could be 3.1-4.0. Some round up, some round down.

If the horn immediately sounds when the clock switches to 0 (which I find more common), it will be the latter...3.1-4.0.

Which clocks?

I called NEVCO and asked about their clock operation. NEVCO clocks are popular in my area and work in the way that bob j describes, according to the engineer that I spoke to.

Either way, you tell can how the game clock operates by observing the change, or lack or change, immeidately after you switch the running of the clock to "on".

If the clock changes to 7:59 immediately, then there is really 7:59.9, 7:59.8, 7:59.7, 7:59.6 and so on, until the real time hits 7:58.9, at which point the clock will then read 7:58.

If the clock does not change to 7:59 immediately, then it will read 8:00 until the actual time is 7:59.0 at which time it will change to 7:59.

Surely (yes, Padgett, I am calling you Shirley), any official can tell the difference between 0.1s and 1.0s when it comes to the clock changing from 8:00 to 7:59.

[Scrapper1]

I thought I remembered something similar happening to me a while ago. Here's what I posted in this thread -- First AAU of the year -- back in May of '07:

3.4 seconds left in the first half. White inbounding, under the opponent's basket. They have to go the length of the floor to get the last shot off. Ball is inbounded, but the clock doesn't start. I count 3-2-1, kid shoots, miss, I blow the whistle. The clock is now running down, around 1.5. The White coach immediately points out that there is time still showing on the clock. I told him what happened and that I had counted it down myself. He informs me that I can't do that, and in 45 years of coaching has never seen it happen. I told him that I could, in fact, do that. At which point, he informed me, "That's not your job!" The exchange ended shortly after that.

Early in the second half, he kid drives out of control to the basket, throws up a wild shot and the other team gets the rebound. I'm Trail in front of his bench. The coach says, "That's not a foul?!?!" I know I shouldn't have, but I couldn't help myself. I answered,

"Don't worry about it, Coach. That's not your job."

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by scat03

team A has a sob at half court with 4 seconds on the clock

The coach was at half court!

Seriously, in a situation like this, before you put the ball in play, turn to the table and tell the clock operator to start the clock on your hand drop. Then, also take a quick peek at the clock to make sure it starts properly.