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  #106 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 04, 2013, 01:21am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler View Post
So you're saying Middlebrooks wasn't making a play. I believe Middlebrooks would have caught the throw if not for the contact made by Craig. I've seen plays like this several times, and not once was an obstruction call made. Craig even used Middlebrooks as support to get up.

It's always like an echo chamber in here. If nobody supports my position, I can live with it............it wasn't obstruction after Craig knocked Middlebrooks to the ground. Kind of hard to do anything but be in the way.after that.

Jim Joyce bailed out the Cardinals. As least John Ferrell didn't stand out there, and argue like Mike Matheny did on the obvious non-transfer call.

Plus I don't care who won the game, or the World Series. I barely watched any of it for that matter.

Let me know when the next bandwagon leaves town...........
Can you show us a still picture or point to the part of the video where it shows this? I have watched it over and over and Craig never knockes Middlebrooks to the ground.

For what it's worth, I can't stand the Cardinals and I firmly believe this call was right.
  #107 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 04, 2013, 01:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
Can you show us a still picture or point to the part of the video where it shows this? I have watched it over and over and Craig never knockes Middlebrooks to the ground.

For what it's worth, I can't stand the Cardinals and I firmly believe this call was right.
He didn't hit him with his spikes. He hit him with his right knee when he was coming up, and Middlebrooks was reaching for the ball. It doesn't take a lot to knock a fielder down in that position. I would hate to think a MLB F5 is so uncoordinated he slipped like he was ice skating on dirt..........this play is the same thing at any base. Untangle, and let them play, though they weren't tangled. You and others ignore the fact that Craig was using Middlebrooks as leverage to stand up to begin with. Craig was trying to go forward, and stand up at the same time. The clumsy bastard.

I've posted video a couple of times with the link. You're just going to have to stop it, and rerun it. If you look close you will see that Craig got up, and then fell on top of Middlebrooks. He didn't initially trip over Middlebrooks until after he fell the first time with no help from anybody.
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Last edited by Steven Tyler; Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 01:57am.
  #108 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 04, 2013, 01:54am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asdf View Post
You might want to re-read the area I highlighted in red..... the entire comment related to 2.00 refers to both thrown and batted balls.....
I can see the obstruction in my mind on the comment section, but not for what happened in the Card/Red Sox game.
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  #109 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 04, 2013, 02:17am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zm1283 View Post
Where did I say I haven't seen it? I saw it live and had OBS, and I still have OBS like everyone else except for you.

Why can't I agree with the "status quo"? I agreed with lawump and would type the exact thing he typed, but that wouldn't be a good use of my time since my thoughts are exactly the same.

Go watch the video that someone posted a few posts up. Pause it at about 1:39. Middlebrooks had just missed the ball and was falling to the ground, Craig's foot had just contacted third base, and their bodies had not touched each other yet. How then did Craig's slide cause Middlebrooks to be knocked down? Even IF they incidentally contacted each other, it doesn't absolve Middlebrooks from being guilty of OBS.


Now you're just trying to stir the pot. Do you not wonder why you're the only one arguing this way?

How was Middlebrooks making a play when the ball was rolling around in left field and he was on the ground? That would be difficult to tag a runner or touch a base with the ball 80 feet from you while lying on your chest. You are right in that Middlebrooks WAS making a play until the ball got by him into the outfield and he no longer could retire Craig. You don't get a chance to make a play and then be protected from being guilty of OBS for an extended period of time afterward. You're either making a play or you're not, and by rule he was not when the OBS happened.

What level(s) of baseball do you work?
Okay, I'll type slower for you. The ball, and Craig arrived as Middlebrooks was making a play on the ball. The ball even hit Craig causing it to veer into foul territory. The ball only missed Middlebrooks glove by a few inches. Craig made the initial contact on the play, knocking Middlebrooks to the ground. It doesn't get more clear cut than that. Some are trying to add words into the definition of the obstruction........that all I saw.


I'd bet dollars to donuts that if obstruction wasn't called the Cardinals wouldn't have gone out, and argued the non-call. They were so surprised at the call of obstruction being made in the first place. They acted like Xmas came early..............and what difference does it make what level of ball I work. What level of ball do you work?
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Last edited by Steven Tyler; Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 02:20am.
  #110 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 04, 2013, 02:29am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler View Post
He hit him with his right knee when he was coming up, and Middlebrooks was reaching for the ball.

If you look close you will see that Craig got up, and then fell on top of Middlebrooks. He didn't initially trip over Middlebrooks until after he fell the first time with no help from anybody.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler View Post
Craig made the initial contact on the play, knocking Middlebrooks to the ground.
I've watched the play and all the slow-motion replays probably 20 times at this point and I can't see how Craig's right knee contacts Middlebrooks at all.

As far as the trip, you will see when Craig starts to turn his head he movies his right foot forward, trying to start running. This foot catches on Middlebrooks' left leg. When your weight is leaning forward like Craig was and your foot catches, you can't help but trip. That's what I see.
  #111 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 04, 2013, 04:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler View Post
Okay, I'll type slower for you. The ball, and Craig arrived as Middlebrooks was making a play on the ball. The ball even hit Craig causing it to veer into foul territory. The ball only missed Middlebrooks glove by a few inches. Craig made the initial contact on the play, knocking Middlebrooks to the ground. It doesn't get more clear cut than that. Some are trying to add words into the definition of the obstruction........that all I saw.


I'd bet dollars to donuts that if obstruction wasn't called the Cardinals wouldn't have gone out, and argued the non-call. They were so surprised at the call of obstruction being made in the first place. They acted like Xmas came early..............and what difference does it make what level of ball I work. What level of ball do you work?

Steven:

With all due respect, I do not know what video you have been watching but every video that I have seen of this play shows no contact between Craig and Middlebrooks until Middlebrooks obstructed Craig on his way from 3B to HP.

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  #112 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 04, 2013, 04:46am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler View Post

You are correct, this video shows no contact between Craig and Middlebrooks until Middlebrooks obstructs Craig.

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  #113 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 04, 2013, 07:43am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler View Post
Try this link.....

Watch: Cardinals win Game 3 on walk-off obstruction call (with official rule) | The Strike Zone - SI.com

Start out at about 1:45, then do some repeated start/stops up until 1:52, focusing on the 1:50 - 1:51 segment. This is good quality video so there are a lot of frames per second, and they are pretty clear. Do it multiple times and you will get a lot of good stills between 1:50-1:51.

By performing this stop/start you will clearly see...

Middlebrooks in front of third base
Craig sliding to the back of the bag, right foot extended, left knee tucked
Craig's right foot in contact with the bag, left knee clear from Middlebrooks...

All before the ball gets to Middlebrooks' glove.......


When the ball passes Middlebrooks' glove and hits Craig's arm (that's what deflected it to foul territory) there is still separation between Craig's knee and his foot is still behind Middlebrooks' feet.

At that point, by rule, the attempt to field the ball is over and it's Middlebrooks' responsibility to "disappear". There is no contact between the two until Craig tries to advance.

Last edited by asdf; Mon Nov 04, 2013 at 07:47am.
  #114 (permalink)  
Old Mon Nov 04, 2013, 09:00am
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We're spending way too much time moderating this thread, and everyone seems to have made their point multiple times in multiple ways.

No more.
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