Two infractions on one play

[mbyron]

R1, 1 out. F3 is playing even with the bag and obstructs R1 after the batter hits a double play ball to F6.

R1 keeps going, and slides illegally into F4, covering 2B (let's say, he slides wide of the base). F4 makes a throw, but it is late and the BR is ruled safe.

A friend asked me about this play, and I think he got it wrong. What's your call?

[dash_riprock]

An obstructed runner doesn't have a license to interfere. I have a dead ball and a DP. Had the runner not interfered, he would have been awarded 2nd base (if he was out at 2nd), and the ball would have remained live (type B or 2 OBS).

[mbyron]

I should have specified: NFHS rules.

[dash_riprock]

Still a DP. (Dead on the INT.)

[ozzy6900]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I should have specified: NFHS rules.

As soon as you said "slides illegally" it had to be either NCAA or NHFS.

[jicecone]

Because obstruction in Fed is a delayed dead ball the actions of the runner interferring have to also be considered.

OBS, player will be awarded second when ball becomes dead. Unfortunately for the player his interference at second caused him to be gone (DP) at the instant he completed his interference, which caused the dead ball.

NFHS OBS 2-22-1 has 2 exceptions 8-4-2 c & d.

[UmpJM]

Call the obstruction when it happens, keep the ball in play.

On the illegal slide, call time, both runner and BR are out on the FPSR violation.

JM

[Simply The Best]

Originally Posted by mbyron

R1, 1 out. F3...obstructs R1 after the batter hits a ground ball to F6.

R1 ... slides illegally into F4, covering 2B; F4 makes a throw, but it is late and the BR is ruled safe.

A friend asked me about this play, and I think he got it wrong.

He certainly did since he called the BR safe.

[dileonardoja]

Lets say the slide was legal but the ball beats the R1 at 2B. When does the ball become dead? If not until all action ceases then what is the call on the runner into second?

For type B obstruction, the PBUC manual states that if "a play on a previously obstructed runner results in that runner actually being tagged out before reaching the base to which he would have been awarded because of the obstruction, the umpire in that case shall call "Time" at the moment the runner is tagged out."

In this case it is force so there is a tag of R1 only a touch of the base. But does this mechanic still apply as soon as F4 touches 2B for the FO? In that case the INT never happens.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by dileonardoja

Lets say the slide was legal but the ball beats the R1 at 2B. When does the ball become dead? If not until all action ceases then what is the call on the runner into second?

For type B obstruction, the PBUC manual states that if "a play on a previously obstructed runner results in that runner actually being tagged out before reaching the base to which he would have been awarded because of the obstruction, the umpire in that case shall call "Time" at the moment the runner is tagged out."

In this case it is force so there is a tag of R1 only a touch of the base. But does this mechanic still apply as soon as F4 touches 2B for the FO? In that case the INT never happens.

I would apply the same logic in OBR.

In FED, the ball isn't dead until the play is over. So, if BU has the oBS and the call at second, I would likley (trying to imagine it -- I don't think it's ever happened) call "stay there" at second and then turn for the call at first. When the play was over, I'd go back to second and give the "safe" sign with the OBS ruling.

[David B]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I would apply the same logic in OBR.

In FED, the ball isn't dead until the play is over. So, if BU has the oBS and the call at second, I would likley (trying to imagine it -- I don't think it's ever happened) call "stay there" at second and then turn for the call at first. When the play was over, I'd go back to second and give the "safe" sign with the OBS ruling.

That makes sense, your giving the runner the base which he deserved from OBS, and you're also letting the play continue thus the delayed actual call etc.,

Thanks
David

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I would apply the same logic in OBR.

In FED, the ball isn't dead until the play is over. So, if BU has the oBS and the call at second, I would likley (trying to imagine it -- I don't think it's ever happened) call "stay there" at second and then turn for the call at first. When the play was over, I'd go back to second and give the "safe" sign with the OBS ruling.

So you have the BR safe too?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bossman72

So you have the BR safe too?

Well, the slide was legal (under dileonardoja's play at post #9)and the throw to first was late, so I can't see any reason BR would be out.

[bossman72]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Well, the slide was legal (under dileonardoja's play at post #9)and the throw to first was late, so I can't see any reason BR would be out.

Ok, I scanned the topic too quick and didn't realize dilenardoja gave a modification to the play.

Yes, I would agree with the way you handled it for the new play.