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-   -   Two infractions on one play (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/65172-two-infractions-one-play.html)

mbyron Sat Mar 19, 2011 06:17am

Two infractions on one play
 
R1, 1 out. F3 is playing even with the bag and obstructs R1 after the batter hits a double play ball to F6.

R1 keeps going, and slides illegally into F4, covering 2B (let's say, he slides wide of the base). F4 makes a throw, but it is late and the BR is ruled safe.

A friend asked me about this play, and I think he got it wrong. What's your call?

dash_riprock Sat Mar 19, 2011 06:57am

An obstructed runner doesn't have a license to interfere. I have a dead ball and a DP. Had the runner not interfered, he would have been awarded 2nd base (if he was out at 2nd), and the ball would have remained live (type B or 2 OBS).

mbyron Sat Mar 19, 2011 07:46am

I should have specified: NFHS rules.

dash_riprock Sat Mar 19, 2011 08:35am

Still a DP. (Dead on the INT.)

ozzy6900 Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 741328)
I should have specified: NFHS rules.

As soon as you said "slides illegally" it had to be either NCAA or NHFS.

jicecone Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:51am

Because obstruction in Fed is a delayed dead ball the actions of the runner interferring have to also be considered.

OBS, player will be awarded second when ball becomes dead. Unfortunately for the player his interference at second caused him to be gone (DP) at the instant he completed his interference, which caused the dead ball.

NFHS OBS 2-22-1 has 2 exceptions 8-4-2 c & d.

UmpJM Sat Mar 19, 2011 11:03am

Call the obstruction when it happens, keep the ball in play.

On the illegal slide, call time, both runner and BR are out on the FPSR violation.

JM

Simply The Best Sat Mar 19, 2011 02:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbyron (Post 741294)
R1, 1 out. F3...obstructs R1 after the batter hits a ground ball to F6.

R1 ... slides illegally into F4, covering 2B; F4 makes a throw, but it is late and the BR is ruled safe.

A friend asked me about this play, and I think he got it wrong.

He certainly did since he called the BR safe. :p

dileonardoja Sat Mar 19, 2011 09:07pm

Lets say the slide was legal but the ball beats the R1 at 2B. When does the ball become dead? If not until all action ceases then what is the call on the runner into second?

For type B obstruction, the PBUC manual states that if "a play on a previously obstructed runner results in that runner actually being tagged out before reaching the base to which he would have been awarded because of the obstruction, the umpire in that case shall call "Time" at the moment the runner is tagged out."

In this case it is force so there is a tag of R1 only a touch of the base. But does this mechanic still apply as soon as F4 touches 2B for the FO? In that case the INT never happens.

bob jenkins Sun Mar 20, 2011 08:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by dileonardoja (Post 741439)
Lets say the slide was legal but the ball beats the R1 at 2B. When does the ball become dead? If not until all action ceases then what is the call on the runner into second?

For type B obstruction, the PBUC manual states that if "a play on a previously obstructed runner results in that runner actually being tagged out before reaching the base to which he would have been awarded because of the obstruction, the umpire in that case shall call "Time" at the moment the runner is tagged out."

In this case it is force so there is a tag of R1 only a touch of the base. But does this mechanic still apply as soon as F4 touches 2B for the FO? In that case the INT never happens.

I would apply the same logic in OBR.

In FED, the ball isn't dead until the play is over. So, if BU has the oBS and the call at second, I would likley (trying to imagine it -- I don't think it's ever happened) call "stay there" at second and then turn for the call at first. When the play was over, I'd go back to second and give the "safe" sign with the OBS ruling.

David B Sun Mar 20, 2011 01:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 741557)
I would apply the same logic in OBR.

In FED, the ball isn't dead until the play is over. So, if BU has the oBS and the call at second, I would likley (trying to imagine it -- I don't think it's ever happened) call "stay there" at second and then turn for the call at first. When the play was over, I'd go back to second and give the "safe" sign with the OBS ruling.

That makes sense, your giving the runner the base which he deserved from OBS, and you're also letting the play continue thus the delayed actual call etc.,

Thanks
David

bossman72 Sun Mar 20, 2011 09:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 741557)
I would apply the same logic in OBR.

In FED, the ball isn't dead until the play is over. So, if BU has the oBS and the call at second, I would likley (trying to imagine it -- I don't think it's ever happened) call "stay there" at second and then turn for the call at first. When the play was over, I'd go back to second and give the "safe" sign with the OBS ruling.

So you have the BR safe too?

bob jenkins Mon Mar 21, 2011 07:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bossman72 (Post 741765)
So you have the BR safe too?

Well, the slide was legal (under dileonardoja's play at post #9)and the throw to first was late, so I can't see any reason BR would be out.

bossman72 Mon Mar 21, 2011 10:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 741887)
Well, the slide was legal (under dileonardoja's play at post #9)and the throw to first was late, so I can't see any reason BR would be out.

Ok, I scanned the topic too quick and didn't realize dilenardoja gave a modification to the play.

Yes, I would agree with the way you handled it for the new play.


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