Was this an appeal play?

[UmpTTS43]

A couple of things concerning this sitch and pro rules:

a: there is no relaxed/unrelaxed terminology
b: although some things are the same, missed home plate and a missed base are two different senarios and fall under different rules
c: the appeal process is treated differently when a player misses a base he was forced to or the BR missing first base versus a non force missed base, tag play.

If a player misses the base he is forced to or the BR misses first, the fielder can either tag the runner or the base regardless if the runner is attemping to return during the appeal attempt. This is a force play situation.

When a runner misses a base in a non force situation (tag play), if the runner is attemping to get back, this is still considered a tag play and the player must be tagged. This is a tag play situation. If the runner advances or is not trying to correct his missed base error, then the base may be tagged in lieu of tagging the runner.

I know what JR says. I don't care and neither does MLB.

[jkumpire]

TT,

I believe you work somewhere in pro ball.... So, under MLB/MiLB as constituted, if F3 dives back to the bag, when the BR misses the bag, it is considered an appeal, vocal or not. And if he hits the bag before the BR, he's out. And it must be an intentional act, not an unintentional act.

Is this correct?

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

A couple of things concerning this sitch and pro rules:

a: there is no relaxed/unrelaxed terminology
b: although some things are the same, missed home plate and a missed base are two different senarios and fall under different rules
c: the appeal process is treated differently when a player misses a base he was forced to or the BR missing first base versus a non force missed base, tag play.

If a player misses the base he is forced to or the BR misses first, the fielder can either tag the runner or the base regardless if the runner is attemping to return during the appeal attempt. This is a force play situation.

When a runner misses a base in a non force situation (tag play), if the runner is attemping to get back, this is still considered a tag play and the player must be tagged. This is a tag play situation. If the runner advances or is not trying to correct his missed base error, then the base may be tagged in lieu of tagging the runner.

I know what JR says. I don't care and neither does MLB.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by jkumpire

TT,

I believe you work somewhere in pro ball.... So, under MLB/MiLB as constituted, if F3 dives back to the bag, when the BR misses the bag, it is considered an appeal, vocal or not. And if he hits the bag before the BR, he's out. And it must be an intentional act, not an unintentional act.

Is this correct?

Yes it is an appeal. However, if no verbal indication is given, F3's actions must be judged to be "an act that unmistakably indictes an appeal to the umpire."

I know you know this, but, if a runner beats the throw to first and subsequently misses it, F3's touch of first as a result of the attempted play to initially retire the BR is not considered an appeal and an out is not recorded. A simple "safe" mechanic is used.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by UmpTTS43

Yes it is an appeal. However, if no verbal indication is given, F3's actions must be judged to be "an act that unmistakably indictes an appeal to the umpire."

I know you know this, but, if a runner beats the throw to first and subsequently misses it, F3's touch of first as a result of the attempted play to initially retire the BR is not considered an appeal and an out is not recorded. A simple "safe" mechanic is used.

OK I can buy that, thanks.

Does the MLBUM or PBUC Manual discuss this situation?

[UmpJM]

Welpe,

The 2009 MLBUM covers it in play #12 of Section 5.4.

JM

[Welpe]

Thanks, John.

[jkumpire]

Since I assume your name is John, thanks. You are correct about what I know on the play, and I am glad that I have been teaching people the right way to make this call.

Let me bring something to your attention, for your comment: Earlier in the thread you said that MLB and MiLB do not care or use the terms "relaxed or unrelaxed action." However, when the concept was first pushed, it was my impression that it was professional baseball who had it as an interpretation, not just J/R.

If you, or some of the other long term vets can recall differently where the concept first came from, and got put into popular usage, I would appreciate it.