This is an appeal play, right?

[John Robertson]

This play happened in a girls' game last Saturday afternoon where the skill level was not very high:

Bases loaded. Ground ball hit to the third baseman. She throws to the plate for what should be an easy force out. However, the catcher drops the ball. The runner decides not to slide and attempts to score standing up. She clearly runs by home plate, missing it completely. The catcher still has her foot planted on the plate when she finally picks up the ball with her bare hand. The plate umpire, who is somewhat inexperienced, immediately calls out. Nobody argues.

I was umpiring first base. When the inning ended, I quietly spoke to the plate umpire and said, in my opinion, that was technically an appeal play because the runner clearly would have been safe if she had touched the plate. Therefore, the catcher should have indicated that she was now making an appeal instead of a simple force play. I have talked to two "veteran" umpires since then. Both have said, "Yes, it's technically an appeal play, but given the skill level of the players, I would have called out without any type of appeal." Your comments, please.

[Dakota]

It is an appeal play regardless of skill level.

[mcrowder]

I would not have called this out. Regardless of level.

[greymule]

Maybe the plate ump had done Fed baseball, where that play would be an out under the "accidental force play" rule, which at least used to exist in Fed. I don't know whether Fed softball ever recognized the accidental force play, or whether Fed baseball still does.

[Dakota]

ASA recognizes an accidental force, just not an accidental appeal. This is not an accidental force since the runner has already passed the plate.

[John Robertson]

The plate umpire was simply inexperienced. He wasn't aware that the force play became an appeal play once the runner had missed the plate.

I have to agree with the posters who said it ought to be treated as an appeal play regardless of what level of ball we're talking about. A rule is a rule is a rule regardless of age or skill level.

[greymule]

ASA recognizes an accidental force, just not an accidental appeal. This is not an accidental force since the runner has already passed the plate.

As I remember, Fed (baseball) never did recognize an accidental appeal. (That is, if B1 hit a triple and missed 2B, and after the ball came in, F4 in possession of the ball stepped on 2B, this was NOT ipso facto an out on appeal.)

However, they apparently still recognize the accidental force play. That is, if a runner on 1B, advancing on a hit by BR, misses 2B on his way to 3B, then F4 could put him out, without an appeal to the umpire, by accidentally stepping on 2B. Similarly, if a BR beats out a grounder to 1B but misses the bag, he is automatically out even though the throw arrived late to F3. This is the accidental "force" play, which applies specifically when a runner has already passed the bag.

Since the play in the OP involved a force at home, I believe that Fed (baseball) would say it was an accidental force out. But as I said, I don't know whether this applies (or ever applied) to Fed softball.

Note: I see now that Dakota's post mentioned ASA, not Fed. Absolutely right. In ASA, once the runner passes the base, there can be no accidental appeal or force. Naturally, if the forced runner has not yet reached the base, then an "accidental" force play could occur if, say, the fielder in possession of the ball inadventently trips over the base.

[Hoosier_Dave]

Originally Posted by Dakota

It is an appeal play regardless of skill level.

I'm confused. Why is this an appeal play? Bases loaded. Ball hit to F5. R1 must touch home prior to the defense touching home. Ball is still live and playable. F2 touches home plate before R1 touches it. R1 is out. No appeal needed.

Now if R2 scores on some other fluke error or whatever. Then F2 would need to appeal to have R1 called out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Hoosier_Dave

I'm confused. Why is this an appeal play? Bases loaded. Ball hit to F5. R1 must touch home prior to the defense touching home. Ball is still live and playable. F2 touches home plate before R1 touches it. R1 is out. No appeal needed.

Speaking ASA

Any runner who passes a base is considered to have touched that base for the purpose of the rules. Runners can still be put out on appeal.

This particular scenario is specifically covered by POE #1.I

[Hoosier_Dave]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

Any runner who passes a base is considered to have touched that base for the purpose of the rules. Runners can still be put out on appeal.

This particular scenario is specifically covered by POE #1.I

Dang. Forgot about that. Now I know I'll have to review the rules before fall ball starts.