Rec game screw up

[TwoBits]

Rec game with high school aged players playing FED rules in which I was behind the plate.

Bases loaded, no outs. Batter hits a deep shot to left that looks like is going to toast the left fielder. All runners freeze momentarily to make sure its going over the leftfielder's head, but then take off running. However, the LFer manages to run the ball down, and with his back to the infield, goes to his knees to make the apparent catch. Base coaches and fans all yell, "Get back!" to the runners, and they all retreat, none of which had yet to touch the next base. As they start running back, the LFer had crumpled from his knees to flat on the ground, and the ball trickles out of his glove. Both me and my partner make the safe signal for the no catch, but runners are still retreating. Coaches figure out what is going on, and send the runners. The defense manages to relay the ball home and get R3 out on a force at home. F2 throws to third base, but R2 beats the throw there.

Here's my screw up. While watching this, the third base coach screams my direction, "Get back to first! He dropped it!" I look to my right, and trotting down the first base line is the batter heading back to the third base side dugout! F5 throws the ball back home, but the batter is now sprinting to first. F2 throws to F3 to tag the batter out, but this allowed R2 to score. I should have called the batter out for abandonment immediately. R2's run gave the visiting team a 3-2 lead in the top of the last inning.

Fortunately, the home team won it in the bottom half of the inning, but I still screwed up nonetheless.

Gotta love rec ball!

[mbyron]

1. Make sure that you verbalize "No catch!" and don't merely signal it. You should not both have made a call -- only one umpire has the ball (I can't tell which from your description, as it depends on how the F7 was moving).

2. A more vigorous call on the catch/no catch would have prevented some of the other follies.

3. The BR is not out for abandonment until he enters the dugout (NFHS) or leaves the dirt circle (OBR). In any case, you should never call abandonment during a live-ball play like this: no rule determines the route the BR must take on his way to 1B (well, within some limits). You were correct NOT to call an out for abandonment.

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by mbyron

1. Make sure that you verbalize "No catch!" and don't merely signal it. You should not both have made a call -- only one umpire has the ball (I can't tell which from your description, as it depends on how the F7 was moving).

2. A more vigorous call on the catch/no catch would have prevented some of the other follies.

3. The BR is not out for abandonment until he enters the dugout (NFHS) or leaves the dirt circle (OBR). In any case, you should never call abandonment during a live-ball play like this: no rule determines the route the BR must take on his way to 1B (well, within some limits). You were correct NOT to call an out for abandonment.

We were pretty vigorous on our safe signal, but admitingly did not verbalize.

As for abandonment, he should have been called out immediately. The rule you are referencing is for a batter-runner who has yet to touch first base. According to FED rule 8-4-2p: Any runner is out when he, after at least touching first base, leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base.

I guess I didn't say whether or not he had actually made it to first.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

As for abandonment, he should have been called out immediately. .

Absolutely, Positively - NOT!

[jicecone]

I agree with Byron however, are you going to tell us if he made it to first before allegedly abandoning the base or not?

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by Rich Ives

Absolutely, Positively - NOT!

Really? I thought the rule I quoted shows I screwed up. How did I luck into the right call?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Really? I thought the rule I quoted shows I screwed up. How did I luck into the right call?

Because in FED ball the runner isn't declared out for desertion until he steps into the dugout. He didn't and he sets his own baseline, so who cares if he's over by the dugout?

[TwoBits]

Originally Posted by jicecone

I agree with Byron however, are you going to tell us if he made it to first before allegedly abandoning the base or not?

Yes, he made it to first.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

According to FED rule 8-4-2p: Any runner is out when he, after at least touching first base, leaves the baseline, obviously abandoning his effort to touch the next base.

You are applying this rule incorrectly. BR can run to right field if he wants. "Abandonment" does not apply to this situation at all, and its SURELY not something you try to call when action is occurring elsewhere.

[ozzy6900]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:
You people need to get the word "abandonment" out of your vocabularies because very few of you know what abandonment really means and how to deal with it. Too many of you think it is a "catch all" call.

[DG]

Can't tell from Op if Batter made it to 1b, but it not it is desertion, not abandonement if he enters the dugout in a FED game.

[TwoBits]

Okay, can someone tell me a situation when 8-4-2p applies?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Okay, can someone tell me a situation when 8-4-2p applies?

Exactly when the Note instructs. IOW, umpire judgment.

But I'm not calling it during live ball action.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by TwoBits

Okay, can someone tell me a situation when 8-4-2p applies?

Player thinks he's out, his teammate throws him his glove and he heads to left field to take up his defensive position.

It takes something WAY out of the ordinary to invoke this rule.

[chuckfan1]

Originally Posted by mbyron

1. Make sure that you verbalize "No catch!" and don't merely signal it. You should not both have made a call -- only one umpire has the ball (I can't tell which from your description, as it depends on how the F7 was moving).

2. A more vigorous call on the catch/no catch would have prevented some of the other follies.

3. The BR is not out for abandonment until he enters the dugout (NFHS) or leaves the dirt circle (OBR). In any case, you should never call abandonment during a live-ball play like this: no rule determines the route the BR must take on his way to 1B (well, within some limits). You were correct NOT to call an out for abandonment.

I agree with you on 2 & 3...... However on a no-catch..... I believe you should just be going with a safe signal........no verbal needed. Similar to a verbal/mechanic on a foul ball, and just the mechanic on a fair ball. If your yelling fair and foul , could sound the same to the players. Same with verbalizing no-catch. The players might believe you said "Catch" in some form.

Ball is foul, verbalize with mechanic...everyone stops .... ball is fair......mechanic, everyone keeps going because they didnt hear anything.

Ball is caught, verbalize with mechanic,
Ball is not caught, safe mechanic....