Marty Foster's call at 3rd base today

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

There is no automatic call on a headfirst slide, where the runner evades the tag. I'm sorry, but the automatic call is on a feet-first slide, in which the fielder is imperiled by the slide if he hangs in there. There is no danger from a guy's hands, only his spikes. This was a blown call and a blown explanation.

I have called outs on which the ball simply beat the runner, but it was always one-man or two-man, where you are not on top and the play and the coverage dictates that the call be made that way. But, come on, the guy was right on top of the play and still blew it---badly. And on a headfirst slide, which is employed just for that reason: to evade a tag at the last second. Bad call, bad explanation, bad situation ... 100 percent due to bad umpiring.

Thanks for weighing in in a timely fashion. Takin' a stand, gotta love it! Like Jim Morrisson, you took a look around, see which way the wind blows.

feet first = fielder could get hurt

head first = runner could get hurt

a lot of potential for getting hurt leaving the glove down. Jeter could have jammed a finger on F5's glove. I've seen it happen.

[insatty]

Last night, Angels at Mets, Mets F5 catches liner and tosses to F6 to double up R2. Slow mo shows R2 out by 12 inches, but in real time much closer. Hirschbeck calls R2 safe, who later scores.

Had Hirschbeck made the expected call instead of totally relying on what he saw, he would have been saved from a humiliating mistake.

Seeing isn't always believing, especially for us poor slobs working two- or three-man games. The best angle we develop isn't always the best angle under the unique circumstances of the bang-bang play. In my experience and my observation, making the expected call and giving the benefit of the doubt to the team that earned the call will save our bacons 90% of the time.

Perception is reality. Jeter was out.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by insatty

Perception is reality. Jeter was out.

I'm going to change the way I umpire. And when a guy is safe, even though the throw appeared to have beaten him, even though 90 percent of the time the throw beats him, he's out, but I see that he's safe like Jeter was, I'm going to call him out anyway. And when he jumps up and disputes the missed call, I'm going to say, "See all those people over there? Well, from over there, a play like yours is generally perceived as an out ... so I called you out."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by Kevin Finnerty

I'm going to change the way I umpire. And when a guy is safe, even though the throw appeared to have beaten him, even though 90 percent of the time the throw beats him, he's out, but I see that he's safe like Jeter was, I'm going to call him out anyway. And when he jumps up and disputes the missed call, I'm going to say, "See all those people over there? Well, from over there, a play like yours is generally perceived as an out ... so I called you out."

But that's the problem...you shouldn't explain your call. Foster shouldn't have explained his call. He could have said, "Shut up, you get the same call on defense," and that would have been it.

I don't care if the runner slides head first, feet first, or as$ first, he's out if the tag has been waiting on the ground for him. In any other case, if he slides around the tag, he's safe. Not if the ball has been waiting for his arrival. That's a different situation than a daring, exciting hook slide on a close play.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

But that's the problem...you shouldn't explain your call. Foster shouldn't have explained his call. He could have said, "Shut up, you get the same call on defense," and that would have been it.

I don't care if the runner slides head first, feet first, or as$ first, he's out if the tag has been waiting on the ground for him. In any other case, if he slides around the tag, he's safe. Not if the ball has been waiting for his arrival. That's a different situation than a daring, exciting hook slide on a close play.

I was working a 18-U wood bat summer Nationals game. I'm on the plate with a Kenny Lofton type guy as R1, and there's a sinking liner to right that drops. I fly to third, because I read that Lofton's coming (he read the liner early and took off). The right fielder throws a beam to third a little on the infield side. The third baseman catches the throw and lays the tag down on the inside corner of the bag 12 feet before R1 arrived. R1 does a headfirst slide, and just as he arrives, he shoots his right hand out toward the outside corner of the bag and the tag missed him from the angle that I busted my a$$ to get. SAFE!

I don't have the ability to make a one-man-game style call when I'm right on top of something. And when you're right on it and you have the angle, it matters a whole lot less what the perception is.

Marty Foster makes calls his way; I try to get it right based on anticipation, hustle, proper choice of angle, a steady set, a clear look, and a fair judgment. If I do it that way, I can do it the same way 100 percent of the time and be correct with my call a higher percentage of the time than the Marty Fosters of the world.

[SanDiegoSteve]

F5 should have dropped his knee in front of the base. Different type of play. F5 had plenty of time to block that bag. Once it was clear that the runner wasn't just going to give himself up, screw being nice...knock the runner out with the tag.

In Jeter's case, F5 was just being courteous to Jeter. Next time, maybe not so.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Playing the game properly is another subject.

If I am the third baseman and the guy slides headfirst, we have an out and an ailing baserunner.

The old knee-in-the-face trick.

[Kevin Finnerty]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Thanks for weighing in in a timely fashion. Takin' a stand, gotta love it! Like Jim Morrisson, you took a look around, see which way the wind blows.

feet first = fielder could get hurt

head first = runner could get hurt

a lot of potential for getting hurt leaving the glove down. Jeter could have jammed a finger on F5's glove. I've seen it happen.

Uh, no, the first time I tried to watch the play, it didn't work. I went on with my life, and then, today, I did see the play and it was a glaring example of one of those instances with conditions that do not add up to an automatic call. One of those conditions was the headfirst slide, which is both more likely to produce a deceptive movement at the end of the slide, and less likely to injure the fielder if he stays in there (the only legitimate reason for the automatic out call in the first place).

The guy blew the call and blathered about it (idiotic!) and ejected the manager. That was a bad minute of time in that guy's umpiring career.

[Tim C]

Would any of you have a different perspective of this issue "if" the following was what was "really" said betwix Foster and Jeter:

Foster: "The ball beat you, the tag was down, I had you out."

AND:

Has anyone read anywhere that Hirchbeck talked with Foster before he met with the media?

I am not defending anyone -- I am just wondering what you all would think.

Thanks,

[Ump153]

Originally Posted by Tim C

Would any of you have a different perspective of this issue "if" the following was what was "really" said betwix Foster and Jeter:

Foster: "The ball beat you, the tag was down, I had you out."

AND:

Has anyone read anywhere that Hirchbeck talked with Foster before he met with the media?

I am not defending anyone -- I am just wondering what you all would think.

Thanks,

That's similar to what a PCL umpire told me. As I recall when Hirchbeck talked to the media he mentioned something about he WAS GOING to talk to Foster. I would assume that meant he hadn't yet heard anything about what Foster said except what Jeter was reported to have claimed.

What would I think is this were true? Business as usual for a Rat.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Just a few minutes ago, in the Cubs/Reds game on WGN, Laz Diaz badly butchered a play at the plate, in which he was 3BLX and in perfect position. He just saw a tag when there was none, while at the same time, the runner's foot was all over the plate. The catcher missed the tag by a good 6", yet somehow Laz saw a tag and banged the runner.

What's with the rash of missed calls lately?

http://mlb.mlb.com/media/video.jsp?content_id=5757733

[cc6]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

What's with the rash of missed calls lately?

You're just noticing them.

[UMP25]

It was a brutal call, but it's not easy being human.

[johnnyg08]

Originally Posted by cc6

You're just noticing them.

The umpires who go on the record will say that there are more cameras at better angles at more stadiums so the umpires are under more scrutiny than ever. There's more and more pressure to get the play right. Not that they haven't always wanted to get them right...but it's the human element. They're going to get plays wrong and we're all going to see them on super slow-motion and not 1 time bang/bang at real time. Hopefully the umpire's union can hold off replay as long as possible.

The percentage of plays that they get right are still very, very high.

As we all know, we're the only ones on the field who are expected to be perfect every time.