What is going on with ML baseball umpires

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tno

I'm new here. I see people are asking for the video.

Here's a link. Click on the thumbnail below the video on the far right side.

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/gameday/index...namlb_tbamlb_1

Well, this is the first time I have viewed the play. Meals apparently felt Upton was making an attempt when he began to round the base and then thought better of it when he saw the ball being fielded. Upton did make a move that indicated he was about to take two on the play as the ball was bouncing up the line, then just after his little move he saw the ball fielded. Judgment call. The ejection on the other hand was priceless. What a jackas$ Maddon is.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Then I watched the Joe West call on Reyes. Reyes most definitely made a move toward second, then stopped when his first base coach told him to get back on the bag. A lot more cut and dried than the Meals call.

[MrUmpire]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well, this is the first time I have viewed the play. Meals apparently felt Upton was making an attempt when he began to round the base and then thought better of it when he saw the ball being fielded. Upton did make a move that indicated he was about to take two on the play as the ball was bouncing up the line, then just after his little move he saw the ball fielded. Judgment call. The ejection on the other hand was priceless. What a jackas$ Maddon is.

Earlier this evening I asked a ML umpire, who agreed with Meals' call, if this was a good call, why wasn't it made more often. His reply: "Damn few fielders are smart enough to apply a tag. It'll get called more often when the play is made more often."

There are different levels of disagreement. One can disagree with the Meals judgement. One can disagree with the rule as written. But if you accept that Meals perceived what he says, then it is hard to disagree with his ruling.

As for as the claim that some posters never criticize ML umpires, just check out any thread involving Joe West, or better yet, Angel Hernandez.

[RLG]

This call was a no-brainer. He did make a faint toward second base and it was a very good call. I don't understand how ANYONE can say it was not the correct call except the announcers that do not know the rules. Some of you are showing your incompetence and lack of judgement as umpires. Please do not argue something as simple as this call, you sound like a manager.

[tballump]

Please watch the 3rd(1:48) and 4th(2:03) replays that are shown on the MLB site given by TNO. The 1st and 2nd replays cut off right at the point where it is harder to tell the outcome. The 3rd and 4th replays continue the whole play through and give a much better picture. This makes Meals correct call much more obvious.

Why is a runner who is clearly going to his right in the grass suddenly end up in the dirt at the end? Why not continue to the right in the grass area to slow down? Because he sees the ball cross in front and he makes the attempt by turning and stepping (big) back to his left, and then decides against going to 2nd because the ball is not far enough away for him to make 2nd before a fielder could pick the ball up and throw him out.

Bet this would look doubly more obvious if the camera had been right on the 1st base line behind home plate like it is on the playoffs. Meals call was easily correct and Darlings statement about calling this type of play for even less, is just as correct.

And yes, Tim Tschida admitted making a mistake on the tag play in the playoffs, so the umps know they are not infallible as do all of us.

[bossman72]

To call that "attempt" is incredibly picky or OOO or whatever you want to call it.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Everybody has the right to my opinion!

[UmpTTS43]

For those of you that do not consider this an "attempt," I would like to know what you consider an attempt? And for one poster, how do you judge a player's intent without considering his actions? Maybe with these two questions answered I can be an even better umpire.

[Rich]

Just saw a 5-ball walk in the Phillies/Dodgers game. I went back and verified using my DVR. TV and the scoreboard in the park had it right, Jerry Layne didn't.

Amazing thing is the Dodgers didn't have it either and the batter didn't say anything at all.

EDITED TO ADD: They just mentioned it and replayed the sequence. I should work for ESPN.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve

Well, this is the first time I have viewed the play.

And you've been here the whole time commenting on Meals's call when you hadn't even seen it??? Unbelievable.

I rest my case.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by UMP25

And you've been here the whole time commenting on Meals's call when you hadn't even seen it??? Unbelievable.

I rest my case.

I was commenting on the correctness of the ruling in general. I read reports of the play stating that the call was correct. Based on how the play was described, I supported the ruling. After viewing the play, I can still see how Meals ruled the way he did. The video shows Upton make a move toward second base, and he wasn't just turning around to come back. Then he tried to play it off like he meant to return to first all along. It was a judgment call, and those who don't agree are free to do so, but it doesn't make his call wrong.

[UMP25]

Sorry, but you can't get yourself out of this embarrassing mess now. You never saw the play. You came here not even having seen replays of it, spewing comments about making an attempt to advance, then flipped to the "immediately" returning side of the rule, then flopped back to the attempt, added the "J" word (judgment), then admitted you never saw it.

Nice try. The case remains closed. In fact, it's dismissed due to lack of standing on the arguee's part.

[UmpTTS43]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Nice try. The case remains closed. In fact, it's dismissed due to lack of standing on the arguee's part.

I did watch the replay, I judged that an attempt was made and feel the right call was made.

You apparently watched the replay, judged that an attempt was not made and disagree with the call.

I am still curious as to what you consider "an attempt," or are you just going to claim victory over one poster and ignore the rest?

Please don't just go home with your ball screaming "I win, I win."

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Sorry, but you can't get yourself out of this embarrassing mess now. You never saw the play. You came here not even having seen replays of it, spewing comments about making an attempt to advance, then flipped to the "immediately" returning side of the rule, then flopped back to the attempt, added the "J" word (judgment), then admitted you never saw it.

Nice try. The case remains closed. In fact, it's dismissed due to lack of standing on the arguee's part.

You need to learn to read better. I never "spewed comments" about Upton specifically making an attempt, I merely commented on "a runner" making an attempt, as in defending the rule, not the play. Look carefully. The only thing I said about the play itself was in my original post, which I had gleaned from an article in an ejection website that said that the call was correct. In my other posts, I said I trusted Meals' and Darlings' judgment. Not one time did I ever say, "hey, I saw the play and......." I never claimed to have seen the actual play itself. When I did, I posted that fact, and now you have used that against me. I didn't think, and still don't think, that my not having seen the play really matters, because I did not argue the specific play, only the ruling.

The case only remains closed in your mind. I think some other folks might think differently.

You can call it an embarrassing mess if you want to. I'm not embarrassed, nor do I have anything to feel embarrassed about.

[refinks]

i just saw the play for the first time, and i have to admit that is a tough call. i'd have a real hard time judging that a move toward second. there was no direct step toward second, which is what i look for in a case like that. to call that is incredibly picky.

Now whether the call is right or wrong, it doesn't matter, because BJ Upton admitted that it was a mental lapse on his part. He took the blame for not returning to the base immediately, whether or not he made a move to second.