What is going on with ML baseball umpires

[LMan]

I can't even begin to list the number of erroneous items in this typical screed-piece by a columnist:

http://www.tampabay.com/sports/baseb...icle778735.ece

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I disagree with that because of how the process to assign MLB Umpires in the first place. Major League Baseball hardly ever gets rid of umpires based on performance like other leagues and the process to get to that level is so narrow minded, that you cannot tell me the people that make it are by far the best umpires. And when some of the current umpires are there because someone was able to pick their successor, how many good umpires were passed over and later got out?

Which is why I said with rare exception. Every profession has its employees who are less than excellent, MLB umpiring included. However, Major League Baseball umpires are the best umpires there are. I also happen to believe that they're the best of the professional sports officials.

[PeteBooth]

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Which is why I said with rare exception. Every profession has its employees who are less than excellent, MLB umpiring included. However, Major League Baseball umpires are the best umpires there are.

IMO, you cannot compare "other' professions with that of MLB

RE: When you attend law school or medical school while you might not be the top of your profession you can make a decent living.

In umpiring, until one makes it to the "show" for the most part you make peanuts. If you want to attract the best then you need a system that will attract the best.

There might be some excellent umpires out there but they may have a family etc,. and simply cannot afford a trip to the minors given the current pay structure.

Heck MLB has a "stink" whenever the minor league umpires do want a raise in pay or better living arrangements etc. as evidenced by the past strike.

What you have is a system that attracts those that can afford to work for peanuts not necessarily the best candidates available but those that are available.

Pete Booth

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Which is why I said with rare exception. Every profession has its employees who are less than excellent, MLB umpiring included. However, Major League Baseball umpires are the best umpires there are. I also happen to believe that they're the best of the professional sports officials.

They are not the best in professional sports, by far. But if you want to drink the Kool-Aid go right ahead. As far as I am concerned you cannot be overweight and have problems getting from point A to point B then be the best in sports. And most of their calls are one thing or the other. When it gets complicated like making a real judgment call, they cannot even get that right. I respect the jobs that most of these guys do. They are working games most of us would dream to have, but to say they are the best is a stretch. And when you have guys that were hand picked only because their dad was an umpire, does not make you the best.

Peace

[UMP25]

Apparently you have difficulty discerning what the word "exception" means. I never said every single MLB Umpire is the absolute best (and I was thinking of Hunter when I first wrote that). Among the major professional sports, MLB Umpires are the best.

In the NFL I see far more blown calls than I do in baseball, and several guys are lard butts there, too. In hockey, they're darned good, perhaps giving MLB Umpires a run for their money. And the NBA? That's not even debatable. The officials there and the league--mostly the latter--are a joke. NBA Referees are, sadly, a shell of what they used to be quality-wise.

If one looks at all the calls made by officials in their respective games, I'd be willing to bet MLB Umpires come out on top in terms of their correctness.

[SethPDX]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Apparently you have difficulty discerning what the word "exception" means. I never said every single MLB Umpire is the absolute best (and I was thinking of Hunter when I first wrote that). Among the major professional sports, MLB Umpires are the best.

Nice name drop.

Originally Posted by UMP25

In the NFL I see far more blown calls than I do in baseball, and several guys are lard butts there, too. In hockey, they're darned good, perhaps giving MLB Umpires a run for their money. And the NBA? That's not even debatable. The officials there and the league--mostly the latter--are a joke. NBA Referees are, sadly, a shell of what they used to be quality-wise.

And this is what JRut is talking about: Football, basketball, and hockey are all sports in which the players and their opponents are moving quickly around the playing surface and usually making contact with each other. Officials in these sports have the difficult job of deciding what is legal and illegal contact, among other decisions. These sports require a different kind of judgment than just ball/strike, out/safe, and fair/foul.

And who in the NFL is a lard butt? They all look in pretty good shape to me.

Originally Posted by UMP25

If one looks at all the calls made by officials in their respective games, I'd be willing to bet MLB Umpires come out on top in terms of their correctness.

Maybe, but it's hard to classify some calls in those other sports as simply "correct" or "incorrect."

[TussAgee11]

Apples to oranges.

Very rarely do we work in the "gray area"- either the ball got to the glove first or the foot got to the bag first.

In most other sports, there is that "gray area" - how much of a hold constitutes holding in football? How much body bump on a clean block in basketball is too much? In hockey, did that trip really cause the skater to fall, or was it a dive?

In JRut's opinion, it seems like MLB umpires can't be the best because of the sport they officiate - an overwhelming percentage of our calls are made when we are stationary, when we have plenty of time and space to get into position, and are "black and white" in nature.

There are some areas in which officiating different sports has similarities - game management, rules knowledge, confidence.

There are other areas where comparing is futile, and just wastes bandwidth

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by SethPDX

Nice name drop.

That's because it's true. Does anyone really think Hunter got an MLB job because he was some outstanding umpire?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Apparently you have difficulty discerning what the word "exception" means. I never said every single MLB Umpire is the absolute best (and I was thinking of Hunter when I first wrote that). Among the major professional sports, MLB Umpires are the best.

In the NFL I see far more blown calls than I do in baseball, and several guys are lard butts there, too. In hockey, they're darned good, perhaps giving MLB Umpires a run for their money. And the NBA? That's not even debatable. The officials there and the league--mostly the latter--are a joke. NBA Referees are, sadly, a shell of what they used to be quality-wise.

I am a football official. It is amazing how many of replay reviews in both college and the NFL that these guys get completely right. And in football there are no "phantom tags" or "unwritten rules" that have to be officiated. And NBA Officials are a lot better than any MLB Umpire. For one all NBA Officials are in shape and they get rid of officials that rate low. They do not keep a guy around or bring guys back if they cannot call the game properly. And as stated, MLB (or any baseball umpire for that matter), mostly has an either/or decision to make on the vast majority of plays. When they have to use judgment surrounding a series of factors, in your opinion they cannot even get those plays right (e.g. Upton play, Pierzynski play).

Originally Posted by UMP25

If one looks at all the calls made by officials in their respective games, I'd be willing to bet MLB Umpires come out on top in terms of their correctness.

Well considering how many games have been decided at the MLB Playoffs based on some very bad calls, I would dispute that. Most of other sports I see where there are there are precieved bad calls, are often based on misunderstanding of the media rather than an actual bad call (e.g. Tuck Rule). These are not plays that the vast majority of the officiating community disagrees with. I see way more umpires disagreeing with big calls in games during the baseball season, then I ever do when people talk about the other sports.

Peace

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I am a football official. It is amazing how many of replay reviews in both college and the NFL that these guys get completely right. And in football there are no "phantom tags" or "unwritten rules" that have to be officiated.

Which is why baseball is much more difficult to work than you can understand. Perhaps you ought to work it some day.

And NBA Officials are a lot better than any MLB Umpire.

Puh-leeze! They're atrocious, as is the league these days.

I find it interesting that you seem to focus so much on an official's weight. Those officials who are overweight out there might not take kindly to this. (We'll see if they chime in.)

Oh, and I don't see any current or recently retired MLB Umpires spending time in jail for gambling/corruption, unlike some sport I know.

BTW, I have officiated football and basketball as well during my life.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by UMP25

I find it interesting that you seem to focus so much on an official's weight. Those officials who are overweight out there might not take kindly to this. (We'll see if they chime in.)

In all fairness to Rutledge, he said "overweight and have problems getting from point A to point B." Hopefully, he was combining these two elements. If he was just capping on fat people, then he's wrong.

If you have problems getting from point A to point B, you shouldn't umpire baseball, whether you're fat or not. There are plenty of skinny-a$$ umpires who can't get around a ball field as well as some of us big guys can. Just because you are overweight doesn't mean you are slow, or can't hustle from position to position.

I might have lost a step or two from when I started umpiring (very slim and trim) to when I stopped (hungry, hungry hippo), but I was already 3 or 4 steps ahead when I started, so I ended up still way ahead of the curve.

[tballump]

Barney Deary's cousin did not make it out of the umpire school. Drew Coble's son was in the minors but did not make it. John Clougherty's son was in the minors (baseball) and didn't make it, however he has made it to D1 in basketball. Baseball didn't work out for Steve Javie either and Johnny Stephens was his god-father, although that case seemed to be about a problem over a promotion. Lenny Dykstra's brother did not make it.

So, Crawford, Wendlestadt, Runge have taken a whole 3 positions due to their father's, rather than their own ability, or so it seems from reading here. Glad Crawford decided to go for it since he is one of the best just like his dad was. What a shame if he had not been allowed to try just because his father made it.

I guess Joey Crawford made it because of Shag and Steve made it because of his dad Stan from NFL football. Seems like Joey and Steve have the NBA finals every year.

Baseball does fire many umpires that do not perform well. Check out the AAA guys who work several years up in the big leagues but do not make it. That is Baseball's system of weeding out and firing of new umps that do not make the grade. I do not see many veteran NBA refs get fired as both Bavetta and Nies are over 65 and in the NFL, Austin is also over 65 and all these guys are close to 70. The weeding out is in the first couple of years in all sports and baseball does this with the guys working up in the "show" from AAA.

[realistic]

Don't forget about Brian Gorman, son of Lou Gorman, Bill Welke, brother of Tim Welke, and Marty Foster, son in law to George Spelius.

There are alot of MLB umpires that have connections to the top due to where they are from or who they know.

I am not saying that any of the umpires mentioned didn't earn it though.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by realistic

Don't forget about Brian Gorman, son of Lou Gorman, Bill Welke, brother of Tim Welke, and Marty Foster, son in law to George Spelius.

Brian Gorman's father was the legendary Tom Gorman, who played major league baseball and became an umpire after his playing career ended. Don't know who Lou is.

[realistic]

Sorry about that I mispelled Tom. lol