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Old Sun Oct 07, 2007, 09:15pm
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Second Play in Infield Positioning

I've got the plate and need some help on this one! I told my partner during pregame I would take the second play in the infield at 3B.

R1 @ 2B, w/ 1 out. Batter hits a ground ball to F6, who looks R1 back to 2B. R1 breaks to third on the throw to F3. F3 catches the wide throw and attempts to make a sweep tag and misses. BU calls the R2 safe. F3 throws to F5, a very close tag out on R1(I made the call). Defensive manager asks BU to ask for help on the tag @1B. BU asks for help and I have the batter safe as well.

My question (after this long winded scenario) is where is the proper position for the plate umpire, when the ball is hit? I came out to the top of the circle to watch for a tag and pivoted toward 3B on the throw.
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Old Sun Oct 07, 2007, 09:23pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevs00cup
I've got the plate and need some help on this one! I told my partner during pregame I would take the second play in the infield at 3B.

R1 @ 2B, w/ 1 out. Batter hits a ground ball to F6, who looks R1 back to 2B. R1 breaks to third on the throw to F3. F3 catches the wide throw and attempts to make a sweep tag and misses. BU calls the R2 safe. F3 throws to F5, a very close tag out on R1(I made the call). Defensive manager asks BU to ask for help on the tag @1B. BU asks for help and I have the batter safe as well.

My question (after this long winded scenario) is where is the proper position for the plate umpire, when the ball is hit? I came out to the top of the circle to watch for a tag and pivoted toward 3B on the throw.
The proper mechanic for this play is that the BU takes both plays in the infield. The PU stays at home. Any BU worth his salt should have no problem handling the call at 1st base, then drop stepping with the right foot and heading toward the 3rd base side of the mound taking the throw over his shoulder. He is then in good position for any call at 3rd base. It looks plain sharp when done right.
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Old Sun Oct 07, 2007, 10:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevs00cup
I've got the plate and need some help on this one! I told my partner during pregame I would take the second play in the infield at 3B.

R1 @ 2B, w/ 1 out. Batter hits a ground ball to F6, who looks R1 back to 2B. R1 breaks to third on the throw to F3. F3 catches the wide throw and attempts to make a sweep tag and misses. BU calls the R2 safe. F3 throws to F5, a very close tag out on R1(I made the call). Defensive manager asks BU to ask for help on the tag @1B. BU asks for help and I have the batter safe as well.

My question (after this long winded scenario) is where is the proper position for the plate umpire, when the ball is hit? I came out to the top of the circle to watch for a tag and pivoted toward 3B on the throw.
After the ball is hit I (PU) would move up the 3B line about 10 feet. I can still help on a swipe at 1B, or a foot off the bag, if needed, and be in a good postion to rule on an overthrow out of bounds at 3B. BU has the batter and the runner from 2b, whatever their numbers.
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Old Sun Oct 07, 2007, 10:55pm
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the way it is taught at umpire school's is when the ball is hit the PU heads up the 3B line in case the ball gets through, in which case he would have R1 inot 3B. as the ball is nearing the fielder the PU will slow down. when the fielder securfes the ball the PU will head back either toward the plate and be on 1B line extended. pbuc uses the same concept, but changes going back down the line to cutting across the area in front of the plate and ending up a few steps up the 1B line.

CCA mechanics vary in this situation as they require the PU to make the interference call at 2B on R1 sliding in, which is flat out ridiculous, but it's how they do it.

both pbuc and cca have BU making both calls in the infield.
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Old Sun Oct 07, 2007, 11:43pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck

CCA mechanics vary in this situation as they require the PU to make the interference call at 2B on R1 sliding in, which is flat out ridiculous, but it's how they do it.

Amen.
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Old Mon Oct 08, 2007, 01:57pm
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Hey Doc. It hurts when I do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by njdevs00cup
I told my partner during pregame I would take the second play in the infield at 3B.
Don't Do That!

wow.. see how simple this is. You learned something.
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Old Mon Oct 08, 2007, 02:05pm
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A base umpire on the 90 foot field, using proper mechanics, will be able to cover the second play on the infield. 'Nuff said.

Now, I believe the correct softball mechanic is for the PU to cover this. FWIW.
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Old Mon Oct 08, 2007, 06:49pm
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There are no rotations on a routine ball hit in the infield. Bobbybanaduck has it right. Follow his advice and you will become a better umpire
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Old Mon Oct 08, 2007, 07:31pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RPatrino
A base umpire on the 90 foot field, using proper mechanics, will be able to cover the second play on the infield. 'Nuff said.

Now, I believe the correct softball mechanic is for the PU to cover this. FWIW.

in the NFHS manual, it has the PU taking 2nd play in the infield.

I am trying to wean my association off this technique, but you know how hard it is to teach old dogs new tricks sometimes.
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Old Mon Oct 08, 2007, 11:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossman72
in the NFHS manual, it has the PU taking 2nd play in the infield.

I am trying to wean my association off this technique, but you know how hard it is to teach old dogs new tricks sometimes.
I suggest if you work in a association that works FED games and uses FED mechanics, do as your told to do and don't fly solo.
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Old Mon Oct 08, 2007, 11:26pm
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While I don't disagree with you that the NFHS manual has the PU taking the second play on the INF, we still don't do it this way. The manual, like all practices is meant for a wide range of skill sets. There are many other coverages and adjustments that can and should be made by crews, providing they communicate and work as a team.

Some 'old' dogs are perfectly willing to change if the changes make sense and actually help facilitate the officiating of the game.
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Old Mon Oct 08, 2007, 11:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbybanaduck
the way it is taught at umpire school's is when the ball is hit the PU heads up the 3B line in case the ball gets through, in which case he would have R1 inot 3B. as the ball is nearing the fielder the PU will slow down. when the fielder securfes the ball the PU will head back either toward the plate and be on 1B line extended. pbuc uses the same concept, but changes going back down the line to cutting across the area in front of the plate and ending up a few steps up the 1B line.

CCA mechanics vary in this situation as they require the PU to make the interference call at 2B on R1 sliding in, which is flat out ridiculous, but it's how they do it.

both pbuc and cca have BU making both calls in the infield.

I think your confusing two different plays here. The umpire schools are teaching you to start up the 3BL with R1. With R2 only, PU only moves up the line 10' max if moving up at all. Then moving to 1BLX. The red book also has it this way. As an advanced mechanic, you can move up into the library and potientially take the play at 3B on R2. If PU isn't taking the play at 3B, and the ball is hit toward the 3BL, he watches the play then moves back to 1BLX. I prefer moving to the point of the plate myself. Looking for the pulled foot/swipe tag, interference on BR, and BU has all plays. 4.6 P39/40 in the red book.
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Old Tue Oct 09, 2007, 12:04am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Tyler
I suggest if you work in a association that works FED games and uses FED mechanics, do as your told to do and don't fly solo.
Unless of course it is your mission to wean the association away from such archaic mechanics and begin to use the preferred mechanics. Then I guess you should continue to wean.

I have never heard of an association that did not welcome input from its membership. Most associations are not totalitarian dictatorships where everyone must march in lockstep and never speak their minds.
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Old Tue Oct 09, 2007, 12:11am
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LOL.... well, mine doesn't want any input. Let's see... the exact quote from my association pres was......I don't care what the [email protected]#$ you were taught at pro school, it doesn't work in HS games.... yeah that was about it. And when I offered to bring in my Evans Balk Video... the response was....can you make it four or five minutes long.....

And yes, there are a few of us beginning to talk with A.D's and start a new association, one that trains and works with it's members, not promote Charlie because he's a good ol boy and we like him.
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Old Tue Oct 09, 2007, 08:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherblue
LOL.... well, mine doesn't want any input. Let's see... the exact quote from my association pres was......I don't care what the [email protected]#$ you were taught at pro school, it doesn't work in HS games.... yeah that was about it. And when I offered to bring in my Evans Balk Video... the response was....can you make it four or five minutes long.....

And yes, there are a few of us beginning to talk with A.D's and start a new association, one that trains and works with it's members, not promote Charlie because he's a good ol boy and we like him.
You lost me when you used the word "Charlie." I know what it means, but pro school grads that use it are typically dismissive of those who didn't attend pro school. I once belonged to an association where one of the guys who went to pro school commented that only pro school grads should be allowed to train umpires.

If you want to create a new association, fine, but trying to change an association's mechanics just you went to pro school is a bit difficult and you should expect that people won't just roll over. Requires people skills and the ability to accept "no" once in a while. Especially when it's a mechanic recognized and accepted by the PBUC manual.
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