Throwing to a base

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

By your logic, then a pick off thrown ahead of R1 (to the 2B side of R1) is a balk. Wait, no, F3 has a legitimate play on R1, no balk. No, that can't be, F3 is dove back to first; no, wait, yada yada yada

It's not just my logic. It's backed by very noteable sources. You really should get a few definitive resources and see for yourself.

From the J/R:

It is a balk if a pitcher:

11. Steps to first base, and :

3) Throws, but the first baseman, because of his distance from the base, is unable (or if the throw is errant- would have been unable) to try a tag against the runner at first.


Tim.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

It's not just my logic. It's backed by very noteable sources. You really should get a few definitive resources and see for yourself.

From the J/R:

It is a balk if a pitcher:

11. Steps to first base, and :

3) Throws, but the first baseman, because of his distance from the base, is unable (or if the throw is errant- would have been unable) to try a tag against the runner at first.


Tim.

That's one source, pardner, which addresses zip of the below, so try again.

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

At first base the fielder must be near enough to the bag that he has a legitimate opportunity to retire the runner. Of course this leaves the call all up to your judgment as to whether or not F3 has a legitimate play on R1.


Tim.

By your logic, then a pick off thrown ahead of R1 (to the 2B side of R1) is a balk, it's not near the bag. Wait, no, F3 has a legitimate play on R1, no balk. No, that can't be, F3 dove back to first; no, wait, F3 is not near the bag, or is he? yada yada yada.

"Near to the bag" has nothing to do with this call which was my point entirely. Legitimate chance to retire is the guts of this rule/call.

Your turn.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

That's one source, pardner, which addresses zip of the below, so try again.



By your logic, then a pick off thrown ahead of R1 (to the 2B side of R1) is a balk, it's not near the bag. Wait, no, F3 has a legitimate play on R1, no balk. No, that can't be, F3 dove back to first; no, wait, F3 is not near the bag, or is he? yada yada yada.

"Near to the bag" has nothing to do with this call which was my point entirely. Legitimate chance to retire is the guts of this rule/call.

Your turn.

Ummmm.....

I believe I said the fielder must be near enough to the bag (distance) to have a legitimate chance to retire the runner or it's a balk


Roder says if the fielder, because of his distance from the bag, is unable to try a tag (legitimate opportunity to retire the runner) it's a balk.


I'm not sure what part has you confused.



Tim.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Ummmm.....

I believe I said the fielder must be near enough to the bag (distance) to have a legitimate chance to retire the runner or it's a balk.

Yes you did. It's a crap call. Next.

Roder says if the fielder, because of his distance from the bag, is unable to try a tag (legitimate opportunity to retire the runner) it's a balk.


I'm not sure what part has you confused.



Tim.

None. F doesn't have to be near the bag to make a legitimate play on R.

Your turn.

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by fitump56

Yes you did. It's a crap call. Next.



None. F doesn't have to be near the bag to make a legitimate play on R.

Your turn.

Crap call? Maybe, but one that's supported by rule and definitive interpretation.

From the MLBUM:

The pitcher shall be charged with a balk if, while in contact with the rubber, he throws to the first baseman who is either in front of or behind first base and obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner at first base.

Tim.

[SanDiegoSteve]

The rule, and Roder's interp, means that F3 must have a play on the runner. There is no specific distance from the base requirement, only that F3 has a play on the runner. Roder gave the phrase "because of his distance from the bag" as a visual aid for us to follow, not as part of the rule.

So, technically Fitump is (I hate to say it) right in that there is no distance from the base requirement, per se.

Tim is right in that F3 has to be close enough to the runner to make a play, but not necessarily close to the base. That is just a reference point for visualizing a play made away from the runner.

[njdevs00cup]

Originally Posted by RPatrino

Holy Cow!

This sitch is not a third world play or extremely rare. It is clearly defined in the rule books and in numerous case books. Maybe I'm being a grouch, but to me it's lazy for someone not to take the time to study the rules before asking a question.

Sorry to offend you with my question. We're all not as good as interpreting the rule book as you! Ignore it if you don't like it. Like I said, an experienced umpire called a balk on a throw near second base. I read the rule and want to make sure I didn't miss anything!

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by njdevs00cup

Sorry to offend you with my question.

Don't play into that game, there is no reason to be sorry.

We're all not as good as interpreting the rule book as you!

There not as good as they thin either. Note the 1000s of man-hours of arguments. "Search" is your friend.

[fitump56]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

Crap call? Maybe, but one that's supported by rule and definitive interpretation.

From the MLBUM:

The pitcher shall be charged with a balk if, while in contact with the rubber, he throws to the first baseman who is either in front of or behind first base and obviously not making an attempt at retiring the runner at first base.

Tim.

Want definitive? How about your buddy SDS?

So SDS agrees with me as well he should, there is no rwquirement to be in reach of the base. You want to tie the play to the bag which is absurd. The play is tied to R and the opportunity to put R out.

Further, your F3 "in front of" or "behind" without making an attempt on R, this is a professional interp? LOL . What about parallel to?

This calls to mind the crowd yelling to "Rocky"

Stay Down! Stay Down.

Your turn.