run down & following runner

[UMP25]

For what it's worth, when Bob explained to me what he did and why, and after I explained to him the mistake, I further explained that R3's out could not stand. As the game's crew chief, I had an obligation to ensure the proper ruling was followed, and Bob agreed with this.

And BTW, it wasn't Bob of this forum's Bob Jenkins.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by tibear

Everyone knows which umpire knew the rule but shouldn't the umpire who is responsible for making a particular call actually make the call or should the UIC always be the guy to overturn rule interpretations regardless of you actually made the original call?

That depends, tibear. Sometimes the umpire making the call will leave it up to the crew chief, other times not. In my game, Bob left it to me without any disagreement.

[UMP25]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I wish to clarify that I had nothing to do with this play.

I just stated this almost at the same time you posted this here.

[SanDiegoSteve]

Originally Posted by tibear

Steve, I understand what your saying but anytime I see umpire change the call of another umpire (even rule interpretations) I feel it reduces the respect for the original umpire. At least let the guy be man enough to correct his own misunderstanding of the rule.

Everyone knows which umpire knew the rule but shouldn't the umpire who is responsible for making a particular call actually make the call or should the UIC always be the guy to overturn rule interpretations regardless of you actually made the original call?

tibear, I do believe rule 9.04(c) applies in these cases. NCAA 3-6g and 3-6i.

[Steven Tyler]

Originally Posted by UMP25

Anyway, here's what I did...

When the defense (mistakenly) believed there were 3 outs and ran off the field, I knew that by rule, there were only 2, because R3 was not out at third, my partner's call notwithstanding. So, upon seeing the batter-runner on second and knowing he could or might take off to third, I called "time" and killed everything so I could straighten this mess out.

I went to my partner after politely separating the two coaches from him and asked my partner, "Bob, whom did you call out and why? I just want to clarify this." He said R3. I told him that in this particular situation, because there was no force, R3 retained his right to third base and could not be called out if he was tagged while on the base and R2 was on it, too. Now, because R2 was tagged off a base during his rundown back to second, his out remains. However, what to do with R3?

Neither NCAA nor OBR have any provision for putting R3 back to third--he was not out, remember--and umpire fairness/or correction doesn't come into play here. Because R3 was never out and he legally advanced to home, he became a legally scored run, and a run legally scored in such situations cannot be "unscored." Therefore, I did not disallow his run by sending him back to third base. By rule, he legally scored, and this trumps any idea of correcting an umpire's call (which, BTW, is limited to a very few situations in NCAA/OBR). As a result of R2 being properly out but R3 not, there were only two outs. So, I waved the defense back onto the field and prepared to explain this all to the defensive team's head coach. Then he said something that didn't exactly please me when he said, "You guys owe me, Randy. You're gonna have to give something back to me for that."

"I'll pretend I didn't hear that, Matt," was my succinct reply. That was the end of that.

I can understand the call from an NCAA/OBR standpoint. As far as the comment about you owe me, I very rarely say anything to coaches, but I do in this case. It's usually a, "Tell the bartender to take it off your tab", or "This isn't a bar and I'm not running a tab here". Like they expect you to stick the screws to the other team because they think you screwed them.

[UMP25]

Had I not known Matt and Matt not known me, I might have responded to him a bit differently; but while I didn't give him any special treatment, I tried to be both empathetic and advisory in the situation.