I was told last night...

[jkumpire]

Men,

Frankly, we all know that most of us have people in our area who do not take the game as seriously as we do. For some people, I would recommend carrying a book with them, or as the FED Umpire manual says, to have one easily available.

For most of us, we would never tolerate someone bringing out the book to try and correct us, it may well be an ejectable offense. But I woulkd rather have somebody get the call right by having a rule book with them to refer to than messing things up.

Of course, having said that we need to also admit that coaches should never carry a rule book with them to a game, live hand grenades in the dugout can always blow a coaches hand off or worse, get him ejected.....

Originally Posted by jkumpire

For most of us, we would never tolerate someone bringing out the book to try and correct us, it may well be an ejectable offense. D

Why would it be an ejectable offense for a coach to bring out the book? If a coach has a rules interpretation question, he has every right to bring out the book if he so desires, and you can't do a d$$$ thing about it. If you toss for this reason, it's more than likely either your pride or your ego got in the way. If the coach brings out the book and he's right, say thank you, change your call, suck it up, shut up and finish the game.

p.s. Be thankful that he doesn't make you look like a horse's a$$.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Why would it be an ejectable offense for a coach to bring out the book? If a coach has a rules interpretation question, he has every right to bring out the book if he so desires, and you can't do a d$$$ thing about it. If you toss for this reason, it's more than likely either your pride or your ego got in the way. If the coach brings out the book and he's right, say thank you, change your call, suck it up, shut up and finish the game.

p.s. Be thankful that he doesn't make you look like a horse's a$$.

There's a right way and a wrong way to question a call / rules interp. Bringing out the rule book is the wrong way, and is considered "Showing up" the umpire. If a coach asks politely and it's a complicated ruel (think NCAA DH), then I might go (and have gone) into the dugouot to look it up.

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

There's a right way and a wrong way to question a call / rules interp. Bringing out the rule book is the wrong way, and is considered "Showing up" the umpire. If a coach asks politely and it's a complicated ruel (think NCAA DH), then I might go (and have gone) into the dugouot to look it up.

Bob,

I understand the point that some would think it's showing up the umpire, and depending upon the demeanor of the coach there are times when I might think the same, and that there are better ways to get the point across. However, the act itself of bringing the book out in and of itself cannot be an ejectable offense because the coach does have the right to state his case regarding a rule interpretation. The only reason I say that is because there are umpires who would absolutely refuse to believe a coach was right and he was wrong unless the rule book was in their face. If the important thing is to make sure the correct call is made, then at some point in time either the umpire acknowledges the coach is right and corrects the call if in fact that is the case, or he says no, and the coach decides to protest the game. If you're the umpire what would you rather do, get the call right, or trust your luck on a protest?

Personally, I've never been shown the rule book at a game, and I would probably not like it. But on the other hand, refusing to acknowledge the book presented by a coach amounts to showing him up, and that is certainly not the intention either, and I can't justifiably toss him because of it.

There are many ways to address the issue, some a lot better than others, plus it can get out of hand. My point was not to suggest something argumentative, but to just suggest that absent any misconduct on the part of the coach, bringing out the book cannot result in an ejection and nothing more.

[BigTex]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Bob,

My point was not to suggest something argumentative, but to just suggest that absent any misconduct on the part of the coach, bringing out the book cannot result in an ejection and nothing more.

Bringing the rule book onto the field to show an umpire is in itself misconduct enough to be ejected. If the Head Coach wants to talk about a rule that he thinks I may have mis-applied, he is more than welcome to come out and talk to me about it. If his argument is persuasive enough, I may decide to go check the rule. If you let him bring the book out and stick it in your face, he is basically telling everyone in the place that you don't know the rules. Once he does this, be prepared for the other coach to come out waving the rule book next time you have a whacker at first. DON'T LET THEM DO IT!

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

However, the act itself of bringing the book out in and of itself cannot be an ejectable offense

See 3-3-1g.1

because the coach does have the right to state his case regarding a rule interpretation.

Agreed, but that' different from bringing out the rule book.

If you're the umpire what would you rather do, get the call right, or trust your luck on a protest?

There are no protests in IL FED ball.

I stand by my original assertion. I'm sure that if you checked with other, senior, members of the association, they'd say the same thing.

[GarthB]

Originally Posted by BigGuy

Why would it be an ejectable offense for a coach to bring out the book? If a coach has a rules interpretation question, he has every right to bring out the book if he so desires, and you can't do a d$$$ thing about it. If you toss for this reason, it's more than likely either your pride or your ego got in the way. If the coach brings out the book and he's right, say thank you, change your call, suck it up, shut up and finish the game.

p.s. Be thankful that he doesn't make you look like a horse's a$$.

If a coach comes out waving or showing the rulebook, he's showing you up and inciting the fans and his team. In my game, he's gone.

Like Bob said, if he has questions about something strange like the NCAA DH rule, I might entertain showing him my sheet cheat.

[bigda65]

Help me out with this,

I am trying to envision this in my mind and do it myself, and I just cant seem to get it done.

Can someone explain step by step a smooth and continuous move & step & throw to first base, while breaking the back plane with the "free knee".
In trying this, I notice that when the knee goes back toward "2nd" breaking the plane, you have to turn at the hips, and the step to first is a sideways step with the toes pointing more toward second than first.

I have never seen this done, does someone have a link or something to look at and see this move being done the right way??