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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 28, 2006, 07:50pm
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Exclamation No one has ever told me this before...

JV game today, V-mechanics. Runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out. I'm PU, partner is in C. Batter check swings, and hits a dribbler down the 3rd base line; ball goes about 10 feet. I jump out to make the fair/foul call, signal fair, and as I look up from the ground as I'm pointing, I see my partner moving into the "B" area to make a possible call at first. It's obvious the play is going to be at 3rd, catcher throws there, R2 is out by 3 steps -- BU's back is to the play, so I come up with the out.

In between innings I go to talk to my partner, and he tells me at our last association meeting (which I had to miss due to school), when they were reviewing some aspects of the V, our rules interpreter said that in this situation, on any bunt or small roller down the 3rd base line, since the PU is coming out of the box to make the fair/foul call, he should then also take the play at 3rd. I've been working the V for 3 years, and I've never done this before. Is this standard practice? Did I just miss the boat on this one somewhere? And, if this is what is supposed to be done, what's the reasoning behind it?
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Old Tue Mar 28, 2006, 08:44pm
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I have always done it this way:

2-man mechanics with runners on 1st & 2nd.

BU is responsible for the first play at 1B, 2B or 3B. If the first play is at 2B or 1B the PU is responsible for the play at 3B.

BUT.....

You'd better do it the way your association wants.

If you're going to do something 'different' then it should be worked out during the pre-game meeting with your partner. Never underestimate the importance of the pre-game meeting :-)
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Old Tue Mar 28, 2006, 08:55pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWL


BU has first play in the infield. When did that change? I think your partner was asleep at the wheel.
This was my point exactly. I dunno what was going on, and it surely confused the he11 out of me. Luckily we have an association meeting tomorrow night which I'll be going to; should be interesting...I'll keep you posted.
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Old Tue Mar 28, 2006, 09:20pm
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CCA mechanics-which my association uses-this is the BU call.
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Old Tue Mar 28, 2006, 11:51pm
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Yep....your partner did a bad thing. He assumed that the play would be at first. He needed to be somewhere behind the mound, ready to make a call wherever the ball took him.
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Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 12:44am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
Yep....your partner did a bad thing. He assumed that the play would be at first. He needed to be somewhere behind the mound, ready to make a call wherever the ball took him.
Here's my bigger problem...what he did is apparently what my association told us to do at the last meeting!!!!!!
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Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 09:17am
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Horrible mechanics

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmp44
JV game today, V-mechanics. Runners on 1st and 2nd, 1 out. I'm PU, partner is in C. Batter check swings, and hits a dribbler down the 3rd base line; ball goes about 10 feet. I jump out to make the fair/foul call, signal fair, and as I look up from the ground as I'm pointing, I see my partner moving into the "B" area to make a possible call at first. It's obvious the play is going to be at 3rd, catcher throws there, R2 is out by 3 steps -- BU's back is to the play, so I come up with the out.

In between innings I go to talk to my partner, and he tells me at our last association meeting (which I had to miss due to school), when they were reviewing some aspects of the V, our rules interpreter said that in this situation, on any bunt or small roller down the 3rd base line, since the PU is coming out of the box to make the fair/foul call, he should then also take the play at 3rd. I've been working the V for 3 years, and I've never done this before. Is this standard practice? Did I just miss the boat on this one somewhere? And, if this is what is supposed to be done, what's the reasoning behind it?
If your association is doing this, you ought to look for a new one - that is simply bad mechanics. PU take the first play at third??

Not only does he have a horrible angle but he is making the call at 50+ ft where BU has a great angle from B and is only about 30 ft from the call or so.

How can PU ever see a sweep tag or if the runner does a hook slide?

Not possible. I would definitely ask for some explaination from the association trainer etc.,

Thanks
David
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Old Wed Mar 29, 2006, 02:32pm
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There is this college umpire with whom I occasionally work--for privacy reasons I won't reveal that his name is Kevin--(thank God it's only occasionally, if that) who has the largest Napoleon complex I have ever seen (yes, he's all but 5'4" or something). He does exactly what you did--takes 3rd as a plate ump when the ball is rolling down the line. In fact, I'll go one better: when the ball is rolling down the FIRST base line, he takes the call at first. I kid you not.

Now, he has never done this when working with me, and we have never discussed it (several fellow umpires have confirmed this, though). However, if he ever tried this schit with me, I'd pound him into the sand after the game.

Lordy, Lordy, it's so hard to soar like an eagle when you work with turkeys.
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Old Thu Mar 30, 2006, 12:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David B
If your association is doing this, you ought to look for a new one - that is simply bad mechanics. PU take the first play at third??

Not only does he have a horrible angle but he is making the call at 50+ ft where BU has a great angle from B and is only about 30 ft from the call or so.

How can PU ever see a sweep tag or if the runner does a hook slide?

Not possible. I would definitely ask for some explaination from the association trainer etc.,

Thanks
David

not that the following is absolutely definitive, but from my last camp the MLB instructor-umpire reiterated that the only 2 plays that the PU can/should 'help' at 3B in the 2-man are R1 and R1-R3 when the ball leaves the infield and PU can take a potential play of the lead runner at 3B.

Ive never, ever heard of PU taking ANY play at 3B on a ball to the infield.
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Old Thu Mar 30, 2006, 12:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LMan
not that the following is absolutely definitive, but from my last camp the MLB instructor-umpire reiterated that the only 2 plays that the PU can/should 'help' at 3B in the 2-man are R1 and R1-R3 when the ball leaves the infield and PU can take a potential play of the lead runner at 3B.

Ive never, ever heard of PU taking ANY play at 3B on a ball to the infield.
LMan,

I agree wholeheartedly that those are 2 situations. How about R1 and R2 tag up at 2nd and advances to 3rd? We teach that PU has 3rd on this as well.

Also, some umpires like to have the PU take 3rd with R2 and it's the second play in the infield, as when F5 throws across to 1st, the PU covers R2 at 3rd. I do not like this, and I always tell my partner in the pre-game that I will take both plays as BU.
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Old Thu Mar 30, 2006, 12:55pm
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What is the "v" mechanic? Doesn't this refer to catch-no catch in the outfield?

Also, I've been taught to watch the ball, and as the base ump, to open toward the ball and let the ball lead me to the play. I think we are getting away from the "watch the ball-glance at the runner" concept.

Bob P.
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Old Thu Mar 30, 2006, 12:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanDiegoSteve
LMan,

I agree wholeheartedly that those are 2 situations. How about R1 and R2 tag up at 2nd and advances to 3rd? We teach that PU has 3rd on this as well.

Also, some umpires like to have the PU take 3rd with R2 and it's the second play in the infield, as when F5 throws across to 1st, the PU covers R2 at 3rd. I do not like this, and I always tell my partner in the pre-game that I will take both plays as BU.
I am the first to acknowledge that I am not a skilled Baseball mechanic, but it just makes sense to me for PU to be heads-up and down the line for the throw from 1st back to 3rd, If something happens at 1st (eg., pulled foot, bobble) BU is gonna lose time turning attention to a close play at 3rd. [No praw if PU is ready.]
mick
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Old Sun Apr 02, 2006, 09:29pm
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Smile

The first thing that hit me here was that the PU did the right thing in getting out to cover the play. Being human we umps do make mistakes (GASP!) from time to time and when your partner at the plate is doing his job and getting out to make the call it makes you both look better, much better!

Never assume you partner, BU or PU, will always be in position to make the call. Things happen. A partner can always fall down, get blocked by players, make a mistake and go the wrong way, what have you. It's a pleasure working with a partner that works with you as a team!
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Last edited by big; Sun Apr 02, 2006 at 09:31pm.
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Old Sun Apr 02, 2006, 10:14pm
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First play in the infield has always been the BU's call, so no need to discuss in pregame. However, asking the PU to take a play at 1B and then be in position for a subsequent play at 3B is a tough one. As a PU I have always moved up the line when it appears evident there could be a play at 3B AFTER a play at 1B. Very likely situation is runner at 2B and ground ball hit to F5 or F6. As a BU I have always been pleased to make a banger at 1B and then turn to see my partner getting in position for a potential play at 3B. Perhaps this is something I should add to pregame discussion.
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