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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 11:50am
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I was told last night...

by the umpires that a left-handed pitcher can bring his foot behind the rubber and still throw to first as long as his knee doesn't cross. I can't find anything about the knee in the rule book (FED). Any help?
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 12:00pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmbu
by the umpires that a left-handed pitcher can bring his foot behind the rubber and still throw to first as long as his knee doesn't cross. I can't find anything about the knee in the rule book (FED). Any help?
FED 6-2-4(f)

(acts by a pitcher that constitute a balk if there is a runner or runners on base)

"failing to pitch to the batter when the enitre non-pivot foot passes behind the perpendicular plane of the back edge of the pitcher's plate, except when throwing or feinting to second base....."
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 12:02pm
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harmbu,

You were told wrong. In FED, if the free foot entirely passes the back plane of the rubber, the LH F1 may no longer go to first or it's a balk. 6-2-4f.

JM
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 12:06pm
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Thanks

Garth,

That is the exact rule that I showed them. One of them told me that it was somewhere in there about the knee. I knew he was wrong, but how do you prove it to someone who believes that it is there and that you just have to keep looking? It had nothing to do with the outcome of the game, so I did not pursue it any further. I knew I could come here and find out what I wanted to know.

Thanks
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 12:17pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmbu
Garth,

That is the exact rule that I showed them. One of them told me that it was somewhere in there about the knee. I knew he was wrong, but how do you prove it to someone who believes that it is there and that you just have to keep looking? It had nothing to do with the outcome of the game, so I did not pursue it any further. I knew I could come here and find out what I wanted to know.

Thanks
It is a waste of time, and hazardous to your ability to remain in the game, to reason with umpires who do not take the time to know the rules.Contact the assignor, and ask him for an opinion without accusing the umpires of being as stupid as they appear to be.
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 12:19pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmbu

That is the exact rule that I showed them....... but how do you prove it to someone who believes that it is there and that you just have to keep looking?
You've already proven it. Until they produce countering evidence, you win.
"It's in there somewhere" doesn't fly.
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 12:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmbu
Garth,

That is the exact rule that I showed them. One of them told me that it was somewhere in there about the knee. I knew he was wrong, but how do you prove it to someone who believes that it is there and that you just have to keep looking? It had nothing to do with the outcome of the game, so I did not pursue it any further. I knew I could come here and find out what I wanted to know.

Thanks
If you're in a good mood, you tell the coach he has 1 minute to find it in "HIS" rule book. Otherwise, we play based on my knowledge and interpretation of the rules. Protest if you like (said with a smile).
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 12:31pm
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Originally Posted by nickrego
If you're in a good mood, you tell the coach he has 1 minute to find it in "HIS" rule book. Otherwise, we play based on my knowledge and interpretation of the rules. Protest if you like (said with a smile).
Helmet on too tight, Nick? You've got the roles reversed here.
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 12:33pm
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Exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickrego
If you're in a good mood, you tell the coach he has 1 minute to find it in "HIS" rule book. Otherwise, we play based on my knowledge and interpretation of the rules. Protest if you like (said with a smile).
I sure hope you are joking. The problem is I have encountered umpires before with that attitude. What do you do when you have an umpire who comes up with something that is way off and nowhere to be found in the rulebook.

I have no recourse but to call the assignor after the game when it is too late.
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 12:36pm
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Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickrego
If you're in a good mood, you tell the coach he has 1 minute to find it in "HIS" rule book. Otherwise, we play based on my knowledge and interpretation of the rules. Protest if you like (said with a smile).

I have said that (politely) to coaches. Let them dig through the book. It's a tougher situation when the other ump is cock-sure of himself and wrong.
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 12:54pm
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That's actually backward - the knee can break the plane, as long as the foot doesn't. I've seen more than one lefty do this, in FED, AmLegion, Junior College, etc.
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 12:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmbu
I sure hope you are joking. The problem is I have encountered umpires before with that attitude. What do you do when you have an umpire who comes up with something that is way off and nowhere to be found in the rulebook.

I have no recourse but to call the assignor after the game when it is too late.
You seem to know your book. Except for the part that's important now... Read up on protests - and use it.
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 12:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueskysblue
That's actually backward - the knee can break the plane, as long as the foot doesn't. I've seen more than one lefty do this, in FED, AmLegion, Junior College, etc.
I'll pay good money for a photo of a LH pitcher breaking the back plane of the rubber with his right knee while keeping his right foot in front of the rubber.
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 01:06pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueskysblue
That's actually backward - the knee can break the plane, as long as the foot doesn't. I've seen more than one lefty do this, in FED, AmLegion, Junior College, etc.
blueskysblue,

Careful there. Under NCAA rules if "any part of the stride leg" breaks the plane (like the knee, for example), the LHP is prohibited from going to 1B.

FED & OBR, I would agree with your assertion.

JM
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Old Fri Apr 13, 2007, 01:07pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harmbu
I sure hope you are joking. The problem is I have encountered umpires before with that attitude. What do you do when you have an umpire who comes up with something that is way off and nowhere to be found in the rulebook.

I have no recourse but to call the assignor after the game when it is too late.
After you offered your POV and he rejects it, isn't this between him and the coach(es)? He's tossing himself under the bus here.

What else do you want to do about it during the game? Shout about it? Wrestle him like SDS wants to do whenever a partner shows up in white gloves after Labor Day?
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