Coaches

[LLPA13UmpDan]

Couple things with this one- Why is it coached insist on arguing/disputing judgement calls? its pointless and stupid. When i was doing third base on thursday.. Runner was trying to steal third...3rd basemen gets the ball and stretches back to make the tag- I call runner out; i saw him get tug. The third base coach obviously didnt think so- He was like "oh come on blue this isnt the major leagues where if the ball beats you ur out" and everyone of third base side was boo-ing...then the other coach from that team in the 3rd base dougout screamed out- What the h*ll you missed that call and everyone including the fans thinks so too...im like doesnt matter what u see or they see...its what i see. end of story. Then theres also the coach who wants to argue the strike zone. In the dugout you have a different view then you do from behind the plate. We tell them b4 the game at the plate meeting "no arguing judgement calls- they are our calls- we call it as we see it". Gee that doesnt go very far. End of story. what sense is it to argue judgement?

[nickrego]

Much of the time, it is a release of frustration.

I have had a couple of coaches come out and scream at me at the top of their lungs over a call, without crossing the ejection line. And the last sentence is something like, "thanks, I really needed that."

Many times, it is a stupid coach.

Not much to say about that, other than, High School coaches are the worst of this category. Coaches below the HS level, do it out of ignorance (which is curable).

Sometimes, it is part of the game / show.

A good coach knows when to argue a call to show his team he hasn't given up, and is willing to go the distance to defend his team. You will learn to recognize the difference, by the way the coach approaches you. The coach may even tell you what they did between innings.

They also do it to hopefully alter how you make that call next time, as part of the psychological aspect of the game. Some umpires let a coach get into their head, which alters the way they make a call, just so they don't have to have that coach on their a$$ again. If that happens, and the coach recognizes it, you are done for the season with that coach. They will be on you for every little thing. Only ejecting them multiple times during the season will get them off you in the future, so don't let it happen.

[pdxblue]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

...then the other coach from that team in the 3rd base dougout screamed out- What the h*ll you missed that call and everyone including the fans thinks so too...im like doesnt matter what u see or they see...its what i see. end of story. Then theres also the coach who wants to argue the strike zone. In the dugout you have a different view then you do from behind the plate. We tell them b4 the game at the plate meeting "no arguing judgement calls- they are our calls- we call it as we see it". Gee that doesnt go very far. End of story.

Nope, not end of story.

First off, coaches KNOW they are not supposed to argue judgement calls. They do because you LET THEM DO IT!!!

Next, DON'T EVER IN A MILLION YEARS say at the pre game "No arguing judgement calls". First reason why is that you have no idea if they will. Next, by saying "no arguing", that SHOULD be a warning, and the next time you eject them.

Next, any coach yelling "what the hell" from the dugout, and following that with "you missed that call" IS going to get a verbal warning to not argue balls and strikes/safes and outs!!! Simply, you call time, take off your mask (if you are PU) turn to the dug out, put up your hand closest to them and say in a VERY VERY LOUD voice "Coach, there will be no more arguing balls and strikes (or safes and outs). NO MORE!". If they argue another one, dump them.

Let me tell you, maybe once a year, I have to dump a guy after I give that kind of warning. If the warning is presented sternly, most likely, you will not hear another peep from the coaches/players of that team, and often, from the other team too!

YOU let them argue judgement calls. If you let them, they will. YOU can stop them too. If they don't stop, eject them. You have the rule book backing you up. After the first time you eject, I can almost assure you that you will NOT have problems with that coach again. He has probably been waiting for that ejection for some time, and is probably surprised that you haven't yet.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

I dont let them. They choose to come out of the dugout. 2nd, That reminds me something else. One night i ejected a coach for ranting over a safe call at first. We in LL, we all know how coaches and board members etc; are real close friends. We'll after the game the League Pres. gets in my grill about that its the 3rd coach ejection this year. Im like there is a reason why im firm with that. NO aruging judgement calls. Period. We'll she didnt find that nice, and ever since then i've had trouble with the board members and the UIC...who by the way...isnt an umpire. Just some lady who has a son in the minor division. That brings me to something else before this. One game on May 1st I threw out 2 coaches from the same team after the one decided to argue outs/safes with the base umpire...and balls/strikes with me. (his team was losing) and the other coach decided to tell me i cant eject people and this and that. But anyhow, this UIC, the ladys son, played on that team. She was at the game the night i threw them out. She gives me some garbage after ward for throwing out her sons coaches. Shes not an umpire...what does she know about on feild stuff here..she was out in the left field bleechers. Ive had problems with idiots like that who get pissed at umpires for enforcing the rule. ugh

[Dave Hensley]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

I dont let them. They choose to come out of the dugout. 2nd, That reminds me something else. One night i ejected a coach for ranting over a safe call at first. We in LL, we all know how coaches and board members etc; are real close friends. We'll after the game the League Pres. gets in my grill about that its the 3rd coach ejection this year. Im like there is a reason why im firm with that. NO aruging judgement calls. Period. We'll she didnt find that nice, and ever since then i've had trouble with the board members and the UIC...who by the way...isnt an umpire. Just some lady who has a son in the minor division. That brings me to something else before this. One game on May 1st I threw out 2 coaches from the same team after the one decided to argue outs/safes with the base umpire...and balls/strikes with me. (his team was losing) and the other coach decided to tell me i cant eject people and this and that. But anyhow, this UIC, the ladys son, played on that team. She was at the game the night i threw them out. She gives me some garbage after ward for throwing out her sons coaches. Shes not an umpire...what does she know about on feild stuff here..she was out in the left field bleechers. Ive had problems with idiots like that who get pissed at umpires for enforcing the rule. ugh

Does your league follow Little League rules or not? On coaches coming out of the dugout to argue, you have black-letter tournament rule in support of you - TR 7 begins "A manager or coach may not leave a dugout for any reason during a game without receiving permission from an umpire. The manager or coach may be removed from the field for the remainder of the game for violation of this rule."

During regular season when you eject participants, does the board enforce the next game suspension rule? Has the board constituted a disciplinary committee that requires ejected players and/or coaches to appear before it to explain their actions?

I know dealing with league political BS is hard, especially for a teenager, but at some point you have to decide whether this league is, as an organization, going to operate within the rules it is chartered to operate under, or not. If not, find another league.

[LLPA13UmpDan]

In our board we have 2 husband/wife, we have managers that are on the board, good friends, etc. Its politics. We do enforce the next game suspension; but the umpire must file a report to the President. This has always been a problem. The league operates with out much problems; but there are conflicts within the leauge. For example, The UIC is good friends with the league president, and i know this because the President lives across the street from me and I see them at each others houses alot. So basically it is BS. Now that ejection w/ the two coaches, didnt happen in the league which they were from, it happened in a interleague game about 15 minutes from here. I do games in multiple leagues. After that, i was suspended for no reason really; other than i let some steam go about the kind of crap im getting. They even tried to call the other league to get me thrown out from there to. All stems from enforcing the rule, and people not liking it. I realize as an umpire i will have "enimies", but they shouldnt be people who are supposed to back me, like the UIC. and yes those 2 coaches from that game did go infront of the board...but they lied their way out of it (of course, they think im a joke)

[LLPA13UmpDan]

i know i may be getting a little off track, but there is a connection here

[BigUmp56]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

In our board we have 2 husband/wife, we have managers that are on the board, good friends, etc. Its politics. We do enforce the next game suspension; but the umpire must file a report to the President. This has always been a problem. The league operates with out much problems; but there are conflicts within the leauge. For example, The UIC is good friends with the league president, and i know this because the President lives across the street from me and I see them at each others houses alot. So basically it is BS. Now that ejection w/ the two coaches, didnt happen in the league which they were from, it happened in a interleague game about 15 minutes from here. I do games in multiple leagues. After that, i was suspended for no reason really; other than i let some steam go about the kind of crap im getting. They even tried to call the other league to get me thrown out from there to. All stems from enforcing the rule, and people not liking it. I realize as an umpire i will have "enimies", but they shouldnt be people who are supposed to back me, like the UIC.

Dave Hensley pretty much read my mind. If the BoD and the league itself is that inherently poor, then it's time to move onward and possibly upward. Contact the athletic director of one of your local high schools and see about working high school games. If that doesn't suit your fancy you should find out if there's an association for sports officials near you that supplies umpires to other youth baseball organizations in your area other than LL. Contact them and see if they can set you on the right path. I think you'll find that the umpires on this forum, to a man, would never put up with this nonsense.


Tim.

[aceholleran]

Dan, I say lose the league where Prexy/Board won't back you up. Simply don't work there.

b) I recommend getting used to hearing it from the crowd. It is as much a part of the job as a cup.

In general, a coach/player will p&ss and moan at you as long as they are allowed to.

As Mark Hirschbeck told me the other day, "Squash 'em like a [expletive] grape."

Ace in CT

[David B]

Originally Posted by LLPA13UmpDan

Couple things with this one- Why is it coached insist on arguing/disputing judgement calls? its pointless and stupid. When i was doing third base on thursday.. Runner was trying to steal third...3rd basemen gets the ball and stretches back to make the tag- I call runner out; i saw him get tug. The third base coach obviously didnt think so- He was like "oh come on blue this isnt the major leagues where if the ball beats you ur out" and everyone of third base side was boo-ing...then the other coach from that team in the 3rd base dougout screamed out- What the h*ll you missed that call and everyone including the fans thinks so too...im like doesnt matter what u see or they see...its what i see. end of story. Then theres also the coach who wants to argue the strike zone. In the dugout you have a different view then you do from behind the plate. We tell them b4 the game at the plate meeting "no arguing judgement calls- they are our calls- we call it as we see it". Gee that doesnt go very far. End of story. what sense is it to argue judgement?

Reading this reminds me why I gave up calling "small ball" several years ago.

Coaches will go as far as they are allowed by the umpires.

Thanks
David

[DG]

It's not limited to small ball. My partner tonight got into argument with the assistant coach who ran onto the field to argue a call at 1B. The bases were loaded with 1 out and the batter bunts one up the 1B line. F3 comes in to field the ball but F1 picks it up and throws toward 1st at F4 who is covering. But F3 backpeddling intercepts the ball and tries to make a tag on the runner going by. SAFE. While my partner is arguing with the assistant the head coach comes out about halfway and is arguing also. He finally told them both to go back in the dugout. The whole time this is going on I am thinking I would have tossed the assistant immediately and then maybe head coach would not have come out at all.