"Help" Plays

[Justme]

Originally Posted by BlueLawyer

This, at least, gives me a starting point. Thanks, Just. Is this in the CCA Manual, on the website, where?

Strikes and outs!

Here's where it comes from. The NCAA softball Umpire's Manual is online which says the same thing but I haven't been able to locate an online baseball umpire's manual yet.

http://www1.ncaa.org/membership/cham...nsToUmps05.pdf

[mbyron]

To answer an early question in this thread: when coach asks you "why can't he get help?" after you've told him that it's your partner's call (or yours, or whatever), tell him: "Coach, that's the two umpire system, and I don't have time to explain it to you right now. If you would like to read the manual, I can give you a reference after the game."

He might whine that it's not in the rulebook (which was likely where the original question was going anyway). You can tell him that there's a lot more to both umpiring and coaching than just knowing the rules.

[BlueLawyer]

Originally Posted by Tim C

"Strikes and outs!"

No matter what people say about you just keep ADVERTISING my column on the paid side of this site.

Regards,

Is this a bad thing? Lord knows I, of all people, don't want to engage in copyright infringement!

I have been using "Strikes and outs!" as my sign off on my local association website for more than two years . . . This doesn't read like a cease and desist demand, but you never know.

Strikes and outs!

[BlueLawyer]

Originally Posted by mbyron

To answer an early question in this thread: when coach asks you "why can't he get help?" after you've told him that it's your partner's call (or yours, or whatever), tell him: "Coach, that's the two umpire system, and I don't have time to explain it to you right now. If you would like to read the manual, I can give you a reference after the game."

He might whine that it's not in the rulebook (which was likely where the original question was going anyway). You can tell him that there's a lot more to both umpiring and coaching than just knowing the rules.

The last time I tried to explain mechanics to a coach during a game, I almost had to dump him, so I have given up on that. I now quietly take the "You weren't in the right position to make that call" crap as long as it is brief and not personally disrespectful, tell the coach thank you, and go on about my business.

The two-man (no sexism intended) system is limited, and we all know that. I am going to miss some things in the two man system, period. It is amazing what another pair of eyes on the field does to improve the quality of umpiring for everybody. Hopefully, if you follow the Nauert/PBUC model, two sets of eyes will rarely be in the same place, especially after the ball is hit.

Strikes and outs!

[LMan]

Originally Posted by BigUmp56

I suppose he could ask for help, but I don't see why he ever would.

ohhh, you might be surprised

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by BlueLawyer

The last time I tried to explain mechanics to a coach during a game, I almost had to dump him, so I have given up on that.

Oh, I couldn't agree more. That's one reason why I suggested that we NOT try to explain mechanics to coaches. They don't care, they don't get it, and it's not why they're coming out anyway. Those are generalizations, of course, not universal truths about coaches (though darn close...).

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Oh, I couldn't agree more. That's one reason why I suggested that we NOT try to explain mechanics to coaches. They don't care, they don't get it, and it's not why they're coming out anyway. Those are generalizations, of course, not universal truths about coaches (though darn close...).

I do not completely agree with this statement. A lot of times coaches try to suggest "you can help him right." They need to know that it is not in the mechanic and you are not in a position to see what your partner saw (of course within limits). Sometimes the first thing a coach might say to you is about what you are watching and what your partner(s) are watching. I would not go into a detailed dissertation, but you can speak about what you saw and why you did not see something.

Peace

[BlueLawyer]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I do not completely agree with this statement. A lot of times coaches try to suggest "you can help him right." They need to know that it is not in the mechanic and you are not in a position to see what your partner saw (of course within limits). Sometimes the first thing a coach might say to you is about what you are watching and what your partner(s) are watching. I would not go into a detailed dissertation, but you can speak about what you saw and why you did not see something.

Peace

Rut:

Here is the last situation I had where I tried to explain mechanics in a game to a coach:

1 out, R1, R2. Batter hits a towering fly ball to left center. It's night and the park I'm working in doesn't have particularly good lights. F8 has to go chase the ball, and falls down in the process. I was at "C", and ran up to the edge of the dirt to get a look. It didn't help much. I saw F8 on his rear end, a white object on the ground next to him. He makes a scooping motion with his throwing hand and then the ball comes in. I rule "no catch."

Defensive coach calls time and comes out to ***** about the call. "What did you see?" I explain the above to him. "You didn't see the ball on the ground next to him, you saw his white shoe." (Begging, of course for me to ask-"What kind of dumba$$ buys his kids white shoes to wear in baseball?"- I digress. ) Then he tells me that I have to get out in the outfield to get closer to the call. "Coach, in the two man system, I never leave the infield grass from inside the diamond." "Well that's wrong, Steve. We pay you to make the right call; get out there and make it." A few more comments before I get to "That's all Coach. You've made your point; it's time to play."

Maybe you work with smarter/better coaches than I do. I have two or three, tops, who understand or want to understand umpire mechanics and why we are where we are when we are. In this Einstein's case, had I run to the outfield, like he wanted, I probably would have crashed into R2- which is the exact reason for the rule of not leaving the infield.

There is a law of diminishing returns in discussing/arguing with coaches. It is more art than science, and I do my best to answer reasonable questions reasonably. But I cannot see the benefit in saying to a coach that I know the two-man rotation/mechanic and I was where I was supposed to be on that play, especially when he's pissed off at me about the call he disagrees with. How do you handle it?

Strikes and outs!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BlueLawyer

Maybe you work with smarter/better coaches than I do. I have two or three, tops, who understand or want to understand umpire mechanics and why we are where we are when we are. In this Einstein's case, had I run to the outfield, like he wanted, I probably would have crashed into R2- which is the exact reason for the rule of not leaving the infield.

There is a law of diminishing returns in discussing/arguing with coaches. It is more art than science, and I do my best to answer reasonable questions reasonably. But I cannot see the benefit in saying to a coach that I know the two-man rotation/mechanic and I was where I was supposed to be on that play, especially when he's pissed off at me about the call he disagrees with. How do you handle it?

I do not spend a lot of time worrying about whether a coach disagrees. They fact that they are now in your face is because they disagree. What you have to do is tell them what you saw and if they want you to do more than the mechanics, tell them what the deal is. I have told a coach if they want an umpire all the way in the outfield, hire a third and you will get that almost every time. Or they can have an umpire a least watching this kind of play all the way. He might not like it, but he is not going to see anyone doing what he wants. All you can do is be honest and straight forward with them and move on.

Peace

[BlueLawyer]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

All you can do is be honest and straight forward with them and move on.

Peace

Thanks. I agree and have done my best to adhere to that philosophy.

Strikes and outs!