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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 06, 2006, 09:40pm
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"Honey Bunny"

I've been reading the thread on the use of the term "ladies" to refer to female players. I've been in the Air Force for the last 26 years living in various places in the US and Asia. I have 3 daughters who all played sports, both in school and in rec leagues. Everywhere they played...Ohio, Alaska, Mississippi, Colorado, Hawaii, Tennessee (and also in Florida where I officiated)...players, coaches, parents, and officials alike have referred to the girls on every team they played on as "ladies". To be honest, I think I was the only one who was ever uncomfortable with it. It may be the emphasis the Air Force puts on avoiding any terminology that could be construed as sexist, racist, etc, but I'm uncomfortable with calling women/girls "ladies" despite being raised in the South where it is easily and commonly used. I consciously try to never refer to players as anything unless I absolutely have to...I call them by their number and nothing else.

Marti Gasser was the women's basketball coach at the Air Force Academy in the 1980's-90's and she refered to her players, individually and collectively, as "Honey Bunny". To hear her shrilly screaming that in the middle of a game remains one of the funniest things I've ever experienced in sports. My then young daughters would act as ball girls for the team and I usually sat right behind the bench, so I heard it a lot and I think I laughed every time I heard her. The best, though, was once when she screamed at one of the officials over something (I don't recall what) and called him "Honey Bunny". All he could do was laugh.

So, feel free to call players "Honey Bunny" as an acceptable substitute for "ladies" in your next game, even if it's a boys game.
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Old Sat May 06, 2006, 10:53pm
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While I don't see ladies as degrading, it seems more appropriate in an environment of competitive athletics to stick with color-number. It can't get you in trouble.

Quote:
Originally posted by Corndog89
I've been reading the thread on the use of the term "ladies" to refer to female players.
I'm sure the site administrators will cringe a bit whenever the topic of that thread is remembered as a discussion on the use of the term ladies. Good of you to start a seperate thread!
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Old Sun May 07, 2006, 11:27am
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I think the intent here is to make a differentiation between "boys" and "gentlemen" - and "girls" and "ladies". To me, using the latter in each appropriate case is telling them I expect a high level of manners and sportsmanship. I don't see anything sexist about it.

I've known lots of boys and men who weren't gentlemen, and lots of girls and women who weren't ladies. In fact, I married one once - and yes, it was a woman, not a man (not that there's anything wrong with that).
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun May 07, 2006, 10:25pm
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I can remember playing basketball as a freshmen in high school an official who would refer to the players as gentlemen. This official later became one of my officiating mentors and is in the OhioHSAA Officials Hall of Fame. Since I started officiating I have addressed male teams using the word gentlemen and female teams using the word ladies. It does not matter whether it is a jr. H.S. game or a college game. I believe it sets that tone that I expect everybody to conduct themselves as a lady or gentleman as the case may be and in a sportsmanlike manner at all times.

MTD, Sr.
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Last edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.; Mon May 08, 2006 at 07:00am.
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 08, 2006, 05:47am
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I agree with MTD, Sr. Throughout my career, I have used the terms "ladies" and "gentlemen". I personally don't see anything wrong with these terms.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 08, 2006, 10:43am
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I don't have a problem with anyone calling my team "ladies", but I sometimes wonder if anyone is actually teaching our young women in sports what it means to be a "lady". Manners, respect, honesty and sportsmanship seem to be on the lower end of the ladder regarding sports a lot of the time.

Coach Gbert
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Old Mon May 08, 2006, 11:10am
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Quote:
but I sometimes wonder if anyone is actually teaching our young women in sports what it means to be a "lady". Manners, respect, honesty and sportsmanship seem to be on the lower end of the ladder regarding sports a lot of the time.Coach Gbert
.


Coach,

It is not the responsibility of the official to teach these young ladies Manners, respect, honesty and sportsmanship. This should have taken place in their up bringing. we the official administer the rules of the sport/game. I have two high school daughters that play basketball. If see either one of them not be respectful to the officials, player, coaches and fans. I personnally bench them. As a parent..
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Old Mon May 08, 2006, 11:47am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ref_ Fred
It is not the responsibility of the official to teach these young ladies Manners, respect, honesty and sportsmanship. This should have taken place in their up bringing.
Fred, I don't think the coach was suggesting that the officials are supposed to teach those things. He was merely commenting on the fact that some people are offended by their girls being called ladies, while not being bothered at all that they are not, in fact, ladies.
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Old Mon May 08, 2006, 12:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckElias
Fred, I don't think the coach was suggesting that the officials are supposed to teach those things. He was merely commenting on the fact that some people are offended by their girls being called ladies, while not being bothered at all that they are not, in fact, ladies.
Yes, that's what I was trying to convey. I apologize if there was a misunderstanding. I just came from a tournament where rudeness amongst players, parents, fans and coaches was rampant. I was lamenting the fact that it seems to be a fashion in AAU to NOT act like ladies, all in the name of "competition". I witnessed some ugly scenes, both on and off the court. While we were never part of it, I'm sorry my 8th grade young ladies had to see it.

Coach Gbert
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Old Mon May 08, 2006, 12:53pm
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Talking

Maybe we should go with X's and Y's? I'm a ladies and gentlemen person. I see no problem with it.
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Old Mon May 08, 2006, 01:10pm
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You mean, instead of "ladies and gentlemen", we say "XX's and XY's"? I'm offended!!
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Old Mon May 08, 2006, 01:10pm
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This will probably get deleted.

Once again, the reason the term "lady" or "act like a lady" offends someone because it puts women in a box of behavior that is seen as traditional or subservient to men. Now if you do not believe me, say that around some very educated women or women that have careers and you might see what I mean. Also this does not offend everyone nor should it. I just find it funny that a bunch of men want to talk about what is not offensive to anyone when the term is not about them or their role in society. Also this point is made to educate those that might be confronted with someone that gets upset about this issue. You have the right to do whatever you like, but if you are an official that is seen as "offensive" and continue to use those terms, you might have to deal with some consequences you are not willing to deal with. That is why the person that raised this issue said that he avoids the term all together. This also plays differently in different parts of the country and with people different social economic status. I cannot behave the same way in Naperville as I would when I am on the Westside of Chicago. Not all language is going to be seen as appropriate or offensive to everyone nor will you have to deal with the same consequences for using certain language in different places.

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  #13 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 08, 2006, 01:47pm
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honey bunney

Quote:
Fred, I don't think the coach was suggesting that the officials are supposed to teach those things. He was merely commenting on the fact that some people are offended by their girls being called ladies, while not being bothered at all that they are not, in fact, ladies.
Sorry for miss-reading your thoughts. thanks for the clearification.

As for AAU tournament, it's getting ugly. The rudness by the Coaches, Fans and of course it trickles right down to the players. They seem to see the adults do and get away with it, so why not us kids? I actually did a tournament in NO Va a month ago and had a parent ejected from the gymnasium for mis conduct. I know we need to have our focus on the game and not the stands, but this gentleman( I'm being kind) was so loud and out of control with his language. I stopped the game cold, alert security to have him removed. Believe it or not He was waiting for me to walk out of the gym to confront me on it. This is why we lack the respect of the players. It come from the parents down....

Last edited by Ref_ Fred; Mon May 08, 2006 at 01:49pm.
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Mon May 08, 2006, 01:47pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge
Once again, the reason the term "lady" or "act like a lady" offends someone because it puts women in a box of behavior that is seen as traditional or subservient to men. Now if you do not believe me, say that around some very educated women or women that have careers and you might see what I mean.
I did...I asked my wife and sister-in-law...wife has her Master's Degree and is a teacher (that would be a career) and sis-in-law has her Doctorate and is a VP of Admissions and Records at a Division II University in Seattle (that would be a career also)...they both thought that was one of the stupidest things they had ever heard...they both said "ladies" is a term of respect and shows gentelmanly behavior from the man...
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Old Mon May 08, 2006, 01:54pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad
...they both thought that was one of the stupidest things they had ever heard...they both said "ladies" is a term of respect and shows gentelmanly behavior from the man...
Actually what he asked was "Would either of you ladies kindly get up off your cute little bottom and get me a friggin' beer?!"
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