Center line rules

[MCBear]

Both 15.2.4.1 and 15.2.4.2 have been in the NCAA Rules Book since the 2003 season. I am sure that if the PTB had felt that 15.2.4.1 was superfluous, they would have removed it. For now, just accept it as it is, Grasshopper .

[Scrapper1]

I've held off on responding any further to this thread because I was trying to think through how the two separate rules might have different applications. But I can't come up with anything. Can anybody give me an example of a play where 15.2.4.1 applies but 15.2.4.2 doesn't apply? Maybe if I had a concrete play in mind, it would help me see the difference.

Originally Posted by MCBear

Scrapper, I wouldn't be thick-headed enough to assume that I know more than the USAV and NCAA rules writers.

I don't mind appearing thick-headed if it eventually helps to clarify or improve the rules. And anyway, somebody must assume that the rules writers don't have it quite right, or we'd never get any rule changes.

Originally Posted by MCBear

I am sure that if the PTB had felt that 15.2.4.1 was superfluous, they would have removed it.

We'd all like to think that was true, but I wouldn't bet on it. Having worked with members of other national rules committees, I know that the people on those committees are not officials, by and large, and do not necessarily know all the rules or how their changes will affect other rules. Many times, they are good or highly visible coaches, but coaches don't always know the rules. (Although they're required to, by rule.)

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

I've held off on responding any further to this thread because I was trying to think through how the two separate rules might have different applications. But I can't come up with anything. Can anybody give me an example of a play where 15.2.4.1 applies but 15.2.4.2 doesn't apply? Maybe if I had a concrete play in mind, it would help me see the difference.

1. R4 jumps to tip a ball and the foot lands across, but over (above) the center line. S3's foot is 8 inches to the left of R4's penetrating foot. Foot is across the center line, but legally so, even though S3's foot is nearby, this would be a legal play.

2. Same as above, only the foot is now entirely beyond the center line, with S3's foot in the same proximity. Violation.

3. Same as 1, but with no S player nearby to present a safety hazard. Play on.

I would recommend that if you need further clarification, you contact Marcia Alterman directly, as she is very good at explaining the interpretations.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by FMadera

1. R4 jumps to tip a ball and the foot lands across, but over (above) the center line. S3's foot is 8 inches to the left of R4's penetrating foot. Foot is across the center line, but legally so, even though S3's foot is nearby, this would be a legal play.

It would also be legal if 15.2.4.1 were eliminated and only 15.2.4.2 were applied, would it not?

2. Same as above, only the foot is now entirely beyond the center line, with S3's foot in the same proximity. Violation.

This would also be a violation if 15.2.4.1 were eliminated and only 15.2.4.2 were applied, would it not?

3. Same as 1, but with no S player nearby to present a safety hazard. Play on.

This would also be legal if 15.2.4.1 were eliminated and only 15.2.4.2 were applied, would it not?

[MCBear]

Scrapper, both Felix and I have done our best to explain this, but you're just not getting it. Follow Felix's suggestion and contact Marcia Alterman (Marcia Alterman - NCAA Rules Interp <[email protected]>) for further clarification.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

It would also be legal if 15.2.4.1 were eliminated and only 15.2.4.2 were applied, would it not?

This would also be a violation if 15.2.4.1 were eliminated and only 15.2.4.2 were applied, would it not?

This would also be legal if 15.2.4.1 were eliminated and only 15.2.4.2 were applied, would it not?

Yes to all of the above. However, in example 1, were it the knee and not the foot, it would be illegal. Hence the difference, and the need for the two different rules.

I've explained this every which way. I'm done.

[Scrapper1]

Originally Posted by FMadera

Yes to all of the above. However, in example 1, were it the knee and not the foot, it would be illegal. Hence the difference, and the need for the two different rules.

Ok!! This is what I was looking for! Thank you. Why does the knee make it different? In reading 15.2.4.2, it still seems ok, unless you're saying the knee makes it a safety concern?

I think that you guys think I'm being difficult for the sake of being difficult, but I'm really not. I'm just anal about the rules. I really want to know what makes the difference.

[FMadera]

Originally Posted by Scrapper1

Ok!! This is what I was looking for! Thank you. Why does the knee make it different? In reading 15.2.4.2, it still seems ok, unless you're saying the knee makes it a safety concern?

I think that you guys think I'm being difficult for the sake of being difficult, but I'm really not. I'm just anal about the rules. I really want to know what makes the difference.

15.2.4.1 says the foot or hand can cross into the opponent's court without penalty if part of the extremity is on or above the line and there is no interference. They are the only body parts that can do this under this provision. If a knee, arm, etc., anything under than foot or hand crosses into the opponent's space, then refer to 15.2.4.2 A nearby player does NOT make the foot or hand illegal. This rule only applies if the hand or foot is touching or above the center line. If not, refer to 15.2.4.2.

15.2.4.2 says other body parts can cross ONLY IF safety concerns are not present. A nearby player WOULD make this illegal. A hand or foot entirely across the center line would be covered under this provision.