"Warm-up" pitches for potentially injured F1

[teebob21]

Tonight I worked a college fall ball game, and the pitcher tweaked her knee covering home after a passed ball. Coach came out to see if she was OK, and it took her at least a half dozen trial pitches to decide she was good to go.

I was PU. Even though this was fall ball, it was the highest level of ball I have worked (D1 school vs JuCo), and I was doubting myself a bit on the tiny details, which unfortunately is my normal reaction to games that test my umpiring ability. After the game I was looking for rule support for throwing as many as she did. Does NCAA rule 10.19.6 means she can throw as many as she needs? If not, where should we draw the line? After the fourth or fifth one, I wanted to get the game moving again.

10.19.6: The pitcher shall be given adequate time to warm up after any substantial delay caused by inclement weather, injury or delayed play by the umpire.

I am posting here because I forgot to post-game this with my partners.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by teebob21

Tonight I worked a college fall ball game, and the pitcher tweaked her knee covering home after a passed ball. Coach came out to see if she was OK, and it took her at least a half dozen trial pitches to decide she was good to go.

I was PU. Even though this was fall ball, it was the highest level of ball I have worked (D1 school vs JuCo), and I was doubting myself a bit on the tiny details, which unfortunately is my normal reaction to games that test my umpiring ability. After the game I was looking for rule support for throwing as many as she did. Does NCAA rule 10.19.6 means she can throw as many as she needs? If not, where should we draw the line? After the fourth or fifth one, I wanted to get the game moving again.

I am posting here because I forgot to post-game this with my partners.

You found the rule support. And what does the 10.19.6 say? "The pitcher shall be given adequate time…." So what's your rush?
NCAA rules and interps are pretty consistent in assuring the health and safety of student-atheletes take precedent in these types of situations at all levels…JUCO, DIII, DII, and DI….in the regular season and the non-champioship season ('fall ball').
You have to demonstrate good judgement and good game management skills at this level. As this was a timeout request to attend to an injured player, NCAA mechanics would have you standing in an area close to the circle assuring that the coach was not discussing strategy with he pitcher as she took the warm-ups. Manage the situation through the coach she'll let you know when her pitcher is good to go. If for some reason this doesn't occur, pick the proper spot to simply ask the coach in a quiet and professional manner if she needs more time.

[IRISHMAFIA]

NCAA mechanics would have you standing in an area close to the circle assuring that the coach was not discussing strategy with he pitcher as she took the warm-ups.

One of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

One of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Why? We do the same in baseball. I was working the HS state championships and was the second base umpire in a game -- outfielder injured on a collision, I went out with the coach. It's expected.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rich

Why? We do the same in baseball. I was working the HS state championships and was the second base umpire in a game -- outfielder injured on a collision, I went out with the coach. It's expected.

Who cares other than a coach looking for an excuse to bitch? Go out to check if the player is injured, okay. But if it was an injury, it's an injury time out. If they talk about something, I really don't care. If they really want to talk strategy, what's to keep the catcher or another defender from wandering near the dugout and have a conversation about strategy.

BTW, in all the years I've been umpiring the exception to warm-ups allowed involved the time delay due to an injury to another player, not the pitcher with the point of allowing the pitcher to stay loose during an unusual delay during the game.

If it is an injury, you allow them "test" their ability to continue after being checked out by the trainer. It isn't a "throw until you feel better" deal. If it is allowed to become that, then I could understand the opposing coach having a reason to bitch.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Rich

Why? We do the same in baseball.

One of my biggest frustration is baseball guys who use baseball mechanics and customs to justify (or ridicule) the way things are done in softball....

That being said, I have been taught to monitor injuries (although it was usually the Umpire closest to the injury that does the monitoring.
The monitoring shouldn't be joining in the conversation, but just standing a distance away and being attentive.

I never questioned the instructions and I was never given a reason, but I supposed it was to prevent fake injuries for the purpose of delivering special instructions.

[MD Longhorn]

Despite Mike's commentary on this, we've been told to stand within earshot as well for this very same reason. If they are talking about the injury, no worries - if they start talking strategy, the injury timeout is over ... and if they keep talking strategy, it can become a visit. I've been told this at both ASA and NFHS clinics.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Despite Mike's commentary on this, we've been told to stand within earshot as well for this very same reason. If they are talking about the injury, no worries - if they start talking strategy, the injury timeout is over ... and if they keep talking strategy, it can become a visit. I've been told this at both ASA and NFHS clinics.

So, if the coach asks, "any suggestions?" of the pitcher being wheeled off the field on a stretcher you are going to charge them a conference if she offers an answer?


IMO, this is your standard chicken shit stuff that umpires could do without.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

So, if the coach asks, "any suggestions?" of the pitcher being wheeled off the field on a stretcher you are going to charge them a conference if she offers an answer?


IMO, this is your standard chicken shit stuff that umpires could do without.

That would be chicken shit stuff indeed. Good thing I didn't even remotely say anything like it.

Also, it's been my experience, at least so far, that a pitcher who has requested warm up pitches to see if they can continue is quite unlikely to end up being wheeled off the field on a stretcher.

[Andy]

Here is the situation I had recently:

Hard hit ball up the middle hits the pitcher on the leg. Not life threatening, pitcher doesn't fall down or anything.

After the play is over, D coach asks to check on his pitcher...I tell him to go ahead and walk a discreet distance away.

I hear this exchange:

Coach: You OK?
Pitcher: Yes

Coach: Good, now here is how we want to pitch this next batter....

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

Here is the situation I had recently:

Hard hit ball up the middle hits the pitcher on the leg. Not life threatening, pitcher doesn't fall down or anything.

After the play is over, D coach asks to check on his pitcher...I tell him to go ahead and walk a discreet distance away.

I hear this exchange:

Coach: You OK?
Pitcher: Yes

Coach: Good, now here is how we want to pitch this next batter....

Which when you stop the D coach, he just goes back to the dugout and gives the call to the catcher.

Or it could have went:

Coach: Can I check on my pitcher?
You to pitcher: You okay?
Pitcher: Yeah.
You to coach: She's good coach

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Which when you stop the D coach, he just goes back to the dugout and gives the call to the catcher.

How are you going to do that, Mike, if you aren't within earshot. You just told us going out there to be within earshot was one of the dumbest things you'd ever heard.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Which when you stop the D coach, he just goes back to the dugout and gives the call to the catcher.

Or it could have went:

Coach: Can I check on my pitcher?
You to pitcher: You okay?
Pitcher: Yeah.
You to coach: She's good coach

Exactly my point....I left out a few details of the specific game situation because I didn't feel like typing that much and it wasn't relevant to my point.

This particular coach was trying to use the "injury" to grab a free defensive conference.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

You to coach: She's good coach

I will not take that responsibility.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

One of my biggest frustration is baseball guys who use baseball mechanics and customs to justify (or ridicule) the way things are done in softball....

One of my biggest frustrations is people who get annoyed at comparisons between baseball and softball as if none of them are valid. I was simply saying that it's not an unheard of practice to have an umpire listen in, is all.