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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 02:32pm
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Grant time-out for "injured" player?

Situation:

HS Boys Varsity,

Team A scores...Team B is bringing the ball up the court...Coach A screams at the near official that he has an injured player and needs a time-out.

Official looks for an injured player, and does not see one. Official ignores Coach A's request.

Coach A goes balistic...finally Team A gets a rebound and is granted a TO.

Official's partner comes over to separate him and the Coach A...who is still going nuts.

Come to find out...Coach A says that his player has a "heart condition" and that he was pointing to his chest that he couldn't breath. He was still trying to play, but his mouth was open like he couldn't catch his breath.

I will stay neutral in my response, for now...would like some comments from the forum.
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 02:35pm
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You can't expect the ref to know about a heart condition unless you tell us before hand. You need to tell the player to sit down or give some sort of signal instead of continuing to play. If you can't trust the player to stop when he needs to, he shouldn't be allowed to play.
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 02:38pm
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I know this is going to sound bad, but if the player did not go down or stop playing, how can the official know this player a player is injured. You know how many times I have heard a coach complain they had a player injured only to go back up the court.
I understand why the coach might be upset at first, but then the coach needs to take a step back and realize that we are not doctors. If a kid has that kind of problem, then my question is why the player is playing in the first place. Most officials are only going to recognize an injury when a player clearly in incapacitated on some level. If the player is running around that is going to be hard to tell.

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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 02:39pm
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So Team A player with heart problem was fine until Team B had the ball??

Hmmmm...

If there's no advantage to be gained by Team A in stopping the game, I suppose you might stop the game, and then decree that Team A player with heart problem can't come back into the game without a doctor's note. But really, why's this guy playing, anyway?

And why's he still trying to play if he can't breathe? He should hold back behind the play, and lean over or flail around or fall down or something so that it's obvious he's "injured".

Last edited by rainmaker; Wed Dec 06, 2006 at 02:42pm.
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 02:41pm
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Couldn't agree more with the responses so far. If the kid is having that much trouble, he should leave the court to get some help and the team should eat the "T". A small price to pay for getting some help.
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 02:54pm
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I would not issue a T in this case -- If I had given a T and came to find out that the player needed immediate medical help I would rescind

this i like the college game last year when a coach had a heart attack or something but fainted and fell on the court - the officials gave him a T -- once I see said coach get carted off on a stretcher if I am part of that crew I say "hey lets rescind that one" and I will deal with any flak from the opposing coach -- only a real winner will whine about that one.

but why EAT a T here -- discretion please
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 02:56pm
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That's a kid that's done for the day too unless I see something from a doctor saying he's OK to play. Having trouble with a heart condition? I sureashellain't taking any chances on that one, no matter how much his coach screams. If I get dumped on post-game for doing so, so be it.
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 02:58pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee
That's a kid that's done for the day too unless I see something from a doctor saying he's OK to play. Having trouble with a heart condition? I sureashellain't taking any chances on that one, no matter how much his coach screams. If I get dumped on post-game for doing so, so be it.
You shouldn't worry about losing HS playoff dates unless you're a HS only official

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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 03:01pm
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holding...holding...holding (my response).
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 03:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RookieDude
holding...holding...holding (my response).
Not sure what response you are looking for. Seems like the responses so far have been right on...if the coach didn't inform us of the condition, there's nothing to expect us to do...had a game where the coach said a player suffers from severe asthma attacks, and if she (coach) yelled a certain phrase it meant that player was in serious trouble...worked fine. BUT - we knew about it BEFORE the game started...

Other than T'ing the coach for going ballistic over this, what response are you looking for?
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 03:52pm
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I've got to agree with the majority. With no prior knowledge and no obvious signs of distress or injury exhibited by the player, not much else they could do.

I do, however, have serious issues with the coach. If he had been more proactive in telling his player to sit down on the floor or make some other very obvious action indicating he was having a problem, and let the officials know ahead of time what was going on, it would have been a lot easier on everyone. IMHO, if anyone dropped the ball on this one it was the coach.

I can't for the life of me understand why a kid with a serious heart condition was playing in the first place. Quite recently we had an incident at a local HS where a kid playing on the varsity team came out of the game in a routine substitution, then shortly after taking a seat on the bench he collapsed and died. Turns out he had a known heart condition that he was under a physician's care for. I can understand a kid's desire to play, and the attempt to let them participate as much as possible, but basketball is a game....is it really worth dying for?
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 04:08pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
Couldn't agree more with the responses so far. If the kid is having that much trouble, he should leave the court to get some help and the team should eat the "T". A small price to pay for getting some help.
Why would the team have to eat the "T"? Wouldn't his leaving the court be a violation?
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 04:48pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAREF
Why would the team have to eat the "T"? Wouldn't his leaving the court be a violation?
I think it would be neither. In my games, leaving for a medical reason is an authorized reason for leaving the court.
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 04:52pm
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Agreed....no "T".
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Old Wed Dec 06, 2006, 05:13pm
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Injured player

totally coaches fault for not telling you, thought here is this is not an injury but a medical condition. I don't know what players have to do to prove their ability to play but in our state players have to pass physicals. This might be something to send to the Federation for clairification on medical conditions. Last thought is if he does tell you prior to the game that if he wants you to stop the game while the other team is in possesion that you can't stop play until TO made basket, rebound,violation etc. or just walk on the floor and you will give him a T. and that will stop play. I am a paramedic and I dought that this players condition is very serious 2nd to the fact that a doctor more than likely released him to play. Until he goes down how are you to know.
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