The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 25, 2013, 09:17am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Speaking FED, there's a separate and distinct definition of play when it comes to LBR. It says, "Any action by the pitcher intended to cause a reaction from the runner(s)..." There is no stipulation that the action by the pitcher requires the runner to be in jeopardy of being retired.
And that is the problem I have with this rule. If the runner reacts TO ANYTHING the pitcher does, there is no LBR. How is the umpire supposed to know why a runner left the base or moved in a certain manner?

How about a quick turn of the head or shoulders? If the runner stops, the umpire is required to assume it was due to the pitcher's actions, hence no LBR. What if the pitcher raises an empty hand? If the runner reacts, there is no LBR in effect according to this definition.

It provides for a wide range of inconsistency as what I or others would consider nothing, some umpire would be charging to the runner's defense stating s/he thought s/he saw something happen that made the runner react.

And this cat & mouse game, like this discussion, could go on and on and on and relatively defeats the purpose of the rule.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 25, 2013, 12:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
And that is the problem I have with this rule. If the runner reacts TO ANYTHING the pitcher does, there is no LBR. How is the umpire supposed to know why a runner left the base or moved in a certain manner?

How about a quick turn of the head or shoulders? If the runner stops, the umpire is required to assume it was due to the pitcher's actions, hence no LBR. What if the pitcher raises an empty hand? If the runner reacts, there is no LBR in effect according to this definition.

It provides for a wide range of inconsistency as what I or others would consider nothing, some umpire would be charging to the runner's defense stating s/he thought s/he saw something happen that made the runner react.

And this cat & mouse game, like this discussion, could go on and on and on and relatively defeats the purpose of the rule.

I can't argue with that. Unfortunately Fed rules in a lot of sports have these little quirks that allow too much interpretation of the rules by umpires/officials.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 25, 2013, 12:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,241
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
And that is the problem I have with this rule. If the runner reacts TO ANYTHING the pitcher does, there is no LBR. How is the umpire supposed to know why a runner left the base or moved in a certain manner?

How about a quick turn of the head or shoulders? If the runner stops, the umpire is required to assume it was due to the pitcher's actions, hence no LBR. What if the pitcher raises an empty hand? If the runner reacts, there is no LBR in effect according to this definition.

It provides for a wide range of inconsistency as what I or others would consider nothing, some umpire would be charging to the runner's defense stating s/he thought s/he saw something happen that made the runner react.

And this cat & mouse game, like this discussion, could go on and on and on and relatively defeats the purpose of the rule.

The casebook situation is not even really clear, and leaves too much to the judgment of the umpire, IMHO.

The key thing is really to get a reaction from runner. I have a problem with this because it leaves too much to the umpires judgment. Even in the example they show, when the pitcher raises her arm, the runner appears to react to the pitchers movement. Since the runner reacts to that motion, even though I don't consider it a play, I can see a coach having a strong argument that she left because of this movement, and thus it is not a LBR violation.


The rule really should do a better job of defining a play to be a throw or a fake throw. To define a throw or fake throw, the ball must be moved towards the intended target of the throw or fake throw.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 25, 2013, 12:26pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: NY
Posts: 763
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
And that is the problem I have with this rule. If the runner reacts TO ANYTHING the pitcher does, there is no LBR. How is the umpire supposed to know why a runner left the base or moved in a certain manner?

How about a quick turn of the head or shoulders? If the runner stops, the umpire is required to assume it was due to the pitcher's actions, hence no LBR. What if the pitcher raises an empty hand? If the runner reacts, there is no LBR in effect according to this definition.

It provides for a wide range of inconsistency as what I or others would consider nothing, some umpire would be charging to the runner's defense stating s/he thought s/he saw something happen that made the runner react.

And this cat & mouse game, like this discussion, could go on and on and on and relatively defeats the purpose of the rule.
I guess it is asking too much to employ common sense.
__________________
Kill the Clones. Let God sort them out.
No one likes an OOJ (Over-officious jerk).
Realistic officiating does the sport good.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sat May 25, 2013, 01:15pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by EsqUmp View Post
I guess it is asking too much to employ common sense.
Of course, you mean to just kill the ball, put the runner on the base and move on with the game.

Thanks, I agree.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
over an back rule? upprdeck Basketball 20 Mon Apr 22, 2013 06:35pm
ASA Look Back Rule II IRISHMAFIA Softball 15 Tue Mar 11, 2008 02:37pm
ASA Look Back Rule IRISHMAFIA Softball 34 Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:02pm
Look Back Rule TERRY1 Softball 17 Tue Jun 08, 2004 08:26am
Look Back Rule WestMichBlue Softball 28 Mon Oct 06, 2003 08:43pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:22pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1