over an back rule?

[upprdeck]

a few plays that happened this weekend in AAU

1) teams as the ball dribbles in the front court the D deflects the ball away from the dribbler who then jumps into the air catches the ball and lands in the backcourt.

if this happened on a throw in its a violation is it not on a regular play?

2) a team is trying to break the press dribbles and crosses mid court, the D deflects the ball back into the back court. The D chases to save it and realizes he is going to go out of bounds takes two steps never dribbles, and saves it by throwing it back over mid court to another defender .

3) a team is pressing, the offense throws a cross court pass and a defender running back towards the offenses basket intercepts the ball in mid air and lands in his back court.

in all three cases the refs ruled no violation? the case examples in my rule books dont cover any of these and I am a little confused by the term "control" when the plays are described in the rule book. in all three cases the ball seems to be in the front court and taken into the back court.

[HokiePaul]

For #1, I don't see how this can happen on a throw in. The throw in would be over before the defender could knock the ball away from the offense.

Assuming that the offense has team control in the front court, and assuming that when the offensive player jumped, they were still in the frontcourt, then #1 would be a backcourt violation. (team control in front court, last to touch in front court, first to touch in back court).

[APG]

Originally Posted by upprdeck

a few plays that happened this weekend in AAU

1) teams as the ball dribbles in the front court the D deflects the ball away from the dribbler who then jumps into the air catches the ball and lands in the backcourt.

if this happened on a throw in its a violation is it not on a regular play?

2) a team is trying to break the press dribbles and crosses mid court, the D deflects the ball back into the back court. The D chases to save it and realizes he is going to go out of bounds takes two steps never dribbles, and saves it by throwing it back over mid court to another defender .

3) a team is pressing, the offense throws a cross court pass and a defender running back towards the offenses basket intercepts the ball in mid air and lands in his back court.

in all three cases the refs ruled no violation? the case examples in my rule books dont cover any of these and I am a little confused by the term "control" when the plays are described in the rule book. in all three cases the ball seems to be in the front court and taken into the back court.

1.) First play: To be clear, A1 (offense) is dribbling the ball in the frontcourt. B1 (defender) knocks the ball away. A1 jumps from his frontcourt, catches the ball, then lands in the backcourt.

This is a backcourt violation under NCAA/high school rules. If this was coming from a throw-in, this wouldn't be a backcourt violation (if you're asking if a teammate makes a clean catch in the air without the deflection by the defense) assuming the offensive player jumped and caught the ball in the air. If on a throw-in the ball is deflected, then an offensive player jumps from his/her frontcourt, catches the ball in the air, and lands in the backcourt, then it'd be a violation.

2.) This would be a backcourt violation under all major rule sets in America

3.) This is not a backcourt violation under any rule set. One of the specific exemptions allows a player from the team not in control of the ball to jump from their frontcourt, catch the ball in the air and make a normal landing without regard to the backcourt or not (and it wouldn't matter what foot landed first or not in the front or backcourt).

Team control is simple...team control is established when there's player control (holding or dribbling the ball) or when the ball is at the disposal of a team for a throw-in or a free throw. Team control only ends if there's a try (a shot attempt), then ball becomes dead (made shot, timeout, OOB, etc) or the other team gets control of the ball.

[HokiePaul]

#2 seems like a backcourt violation to me, assuming the defender gains control before throwing the ball back court (as opposed to batting it).

#3 (99% sure) is legal. I believe the defender is allowed to make a normal landing on an stolen ball. I'm I'm incorrect, someone will cite the rule I'm sure.

[upprdeck]

so in case 3 what happens if the D deflects the ball first and then another defender catches it and lands in the back court. does the D have to show control before the exemption goes away?

my question from throw-ins is because i thought when a throw in was deflected the exemption to land in the back court was gone? or is that only for the inbounding and not the defending team?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by upprdeck

so in case 3 what happens if the D deflects the ball first and then another defender catches it and lands in the back court. does the D have to show control before the exemption goes away?

my question from throw-ins is because i thought when a throw in was deflected the exemption to land in the back court was gone? or is that only for the inbounding and not the defending team?

We'd better be able to answer you question(s) if you give a clear description of a particular play you have in mind. And use A1/A2/etc for offensive players and B1/B2/etc for defensive players.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by upprdeck

so in case 3 what happens if the D deflects the ball first and then another defender catches it and lands in the back court. does the D have to show control before the exemption goes away?

my question from throw-ins is because i thought when a throw in was deflected the exemption to land in the back court was gone? or is that only for the inbounding and not the defending team?

It's for both teams on the throw-in.

[upprdeck]

1) A1 throws a pass in the front court, B1 deflects it into the air, B2 jumps from his front court and and catches the ball landing in the A1 front court

2) A1 throws in a pass to his back court, B1 jumps and deflects it into the air, B2 Jumps from his front court and lands in his back court.

3) A1 throws in a pass into his front court, B1 deflects it and A2 jumps and catches it landing in his back court.

so I believe in example 3 thats a violation as B1 touching the ball removes the exemption. the other two I am confused or perhaps all 3.

[rekent]

Originally Posted by upprdeck

1) A1 throws a pass in the front court, B1 deflects it into the air, B2 jumps from his front court and and catches the ball landing in the A1 front court

2) A1 throws in a pass to his back court, B1 jumps and deflects it into the air, B2 Jumps from his front court and lands in his back court.

3) A1 throws in a pass into his front court, B1 deflects it and A2 jumps and catches it landing in his back court.

so I believe in example 3 thats a violation as B1 touching the ball removes the exemption. the other two I am confused or perhaps all 3.

I've got (I think but I'm pretty tired) illegal 2 and 3. The same touching that removes exemption in 3 does so in 2.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by upprdeck

1) A1 throws a pass in the front court, B1 deflects it into the air, B2 jumps from his front court and and catches the ball landing in the A1 front court

2) A1 throws in a pass to his back court, B1 jumps and deflects it into the air, B2 Jumps from his front court and lands in his back court.

3) A1 throws in a pass into his front court, B1 deflects it and A2 jumps and catches it landing in his back court.

so I believe in example 3 thats a violation as B1 touching the ball removes the exemption. the other two I am confused or perhaps all 3.

If these are all throw-in passes, then it's a violation in all.

If these are "during play" passes, then the first two are legal.

[upprdeck]

so my question to all of this why is the rule different for plays started on the court and plays started out of bounds?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by upprdeck

so my question to all of this why is the rule different for plays started on the court and plays started out of bounds?

On a throw in there's no "offense" or "defense" so both are held to the same rule. Once the ball is in play, the offense can (in theory) control where the ball goes, so the defense gets an "extra" exception.

And, whether the "defensive exception" applied during the throw-in process was a big debate here for a couple of years until the FED clarified. It's now been 5? years since this was "settled."

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

If these are all inbounds passes, then it's a violation in all.

If these are "during play" passes, then the first two are legal.

It took me a couple times of reading this to realize you meant "throw-ins".

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

On a throw in there's no "offense" or "defense" so both are held to the same rule. Once the ball is in play, the offense can (in theory) control where the ball goes, so the defense gets an "extra" exception.

And, whether the "defensive exception" applied during the throw-in process was a big debate here for a couple of years until the FED clarified. It's now been 5? years since this was "settled."

I remember the discussion, I missed the clarification. Interps or case plays?

[pfan1981]

Originally Posted by upprdeck

1) A1 throws a pass in the front court, B1 deflects it into the air, B2 jumps from his front court and and catches the ball landing in the A1 front court

2) A1 throws in a pass to his back court, B1 jumps and deflects it into the air, B2 Jumps from his front court and lands in his back court.

3) A1 throws in a pass into his front court, B1 deflects it and A2 jumps and catches it landing in his back court.

so I believe in example 3 thats a violation as B1 touching the ball removes the exemption. the other two I am confused or perhaps all 3.

We need to put on some shorts and act these out

Seriously, how funny would they be????

I have all three as violations since team control does not change on deflections. It's a classic case of someone jumping from their front court, catching in mid-air, and landing in their back court. The second they touch it, they have front court status and land in the back court. Violation.