ASA Look Back Rule II

[IRISHMAFIA]

PLAY:

Bottom of 7th, home team down one run.

Two outs, bases loaded. As the pitcher receives the ball IN THE CIRCLE, all runners return to their respective base.

In what is apparently a DMP, with all runners on their base, F1 fakes a throw toward 2B. Daring the pitcher to throw the ball, all runners advance 2-3 strides toward the next base. F1 turns and attempts to retire R1 who is leaning toward home. The throw goes into the 3B dugout.

PU rules the ball dead and awards all runners two bases scoring the tying and winning runs.

Is this the correct call?

[greymule]

Is this the correct call?

Yes.

Now what's the catch?

[jmaellis]

New guy question:

DMP?

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by jmaellis

New guy question:

DMP?

Dumb Move Pitcher

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

PLAY:

Bottom of 7th, home team down one run.

Two outs, bases loaded. As the pitcher receives the ball IN THE CIRCLE, all runners return to their respective base.

In what is apparently a DMP, with all runners on their base, F1 fakes a throw toward 2B. Daring the pitcher to throw the ball, all runners advance 2-3 strides toward the next base. F1 turns and attempts to retire R1 who is leaning toward home. The throw goes into the 3B dugout.

PU rules the ball dead and awards all runners two bases scoring the tying and winning runs.

Is this the correct call?

Hmmm... Mike was hoping for more responses here.

Problem is, I don't see much to discuss here. Correct call as I read it.

Once the pitcher fakes the throw, the LBR is no longer in effect and all runners may move off their bases, stop, zig-zag, etc. To put the rule back into effect, F1 needs to cease making a play or plays on the runners, the runners will be given time to recognize this, but they must then immediately decide where they are going and go there. Instead, F1 made a play on a different runner, throwing the ball out of play.

[Stu Clary]

I don't see the issue. Seems like a simple, text book call.

[wadeintothem]

Originally Posted by Stu Clary

I don't see the issue. Seems like a simple, text book call.

Yeah but we got to learn what DMP means!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Read RS 34.C.EXCEPTION 1

[Stu Clary]

Originally Posted by Stu Clary

I don't see the issue. Seems like a simple, text book call.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Read RS 34.C.EXCEPTION 1

OK. I just did that. NOW I think it's a simple, text book call, and I don't see the problem.

R/S 34. LOOK BACK RULE...EXCEPTION B-C: A runner will not be declared out when:

1. A play is made on another runner, or...

Good call, game over. Talk about DMP in parking lot with partner.

[Stu Clary]

Hmmmm...have I found the answer?

The OP said F1 faked the throw to 2B while all runner were on base. "Play" is defined in Rule 1 as "an attempt by a defensive player to retire an offensive player..."

If the runners are on base, how can F1's fake be an attempt to retire the runner?

Therefore, has a "play" been made?

Still, I have to say that if this happened in a game I was working the game would be over.

[greymule]

If the runners are on base, how can F1's fake be an attempt to retire the runner?

I thought of that, too. The argument could be made (1) that if a runner is off a base and has responsibilities under the LBR, then F1's faking of a throw or raising of her arm would remove those responsibilities temporarily—until the pitcher stopped such actions and the runners had time to recognize that their responsibilities had been reinstated—but also (2) that if all runners are on their bases and F1 has the ball in the circle, F1's actions cannot then "release" the runners.

Under this thinking, when all runners are stopped on their bases and F1 has the ball in the circle, the game situation has changed from possible LBR infraction to simply "everybody on their bases while we wait for the batter." At this point, there are no plays or fakes possible, as if the pitcher, even by making what looks like a fake (or, I assume, even leaving the circle) cannot re-start what has already been stopped. A runner who now left the base in this situation would be out, not on the LBR per se, but because she left before the pitch was delivered.

I don't buy that argument, but who knows?

[Dakota]

If there is no play possible, then what was F1 doing? Trying to fool the runner to make them step off the base? Why would she do that? To get an out? Isn't that an attempt to retire the runner, and hence, a play? So, in conclusion, it is not a play unless it is a play...

[pollywolly60]

OP -

This is the correct call.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Daring the pitcher to throw the ball, all runners advance 2-3 strides toward the next base.

Is this what you are talking about Mike? If so, is there some sort of action that was made by the runners either a) before the pitcher faked her throw, or b) during the interim after she had faked her throw, gone back to a "normal" stance in the circle, and before throwing to 3rd?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Okay, enough

The wording in the RS states that the exception applies when the pitcher makes a play on ANOTHER runner. IOW, making a play on a runner stopped on a base only releases other runners, not the one toward which the pitcher made the play.

I think this is just a remnant of a "housekeeping" change requested at the Central Atlantic Regional Clinic a year or two ago.