Look Back Rule

[jmkupka]

Look Back Rule - YouTube

Please take a look at :40 sec. In the context of the rest of the video, this is described as a violation of the LBR.

I see this as a play by the pitcher, and if the runner was between bases I'd definitely drop the LBR. Since the runner is on 1st at this point, I wanted to hear your feedback. Does a "play" (assuming you consider this a play) release the runner from the base?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Look Back Rule - YouTube

Please take a look at :40 sec. In the context of the rest of the video, this is described as a violation of the LBR.

I see this as a play by the pitcher, and if the runner was between bases I'd definitely drop the LBR. Since the runner is on 1st at this point, I wanted to hear your feedback. Does a "play" (assuming you consider this a play) release the runner from the base?

If there is a play, the LBR does not apply.

At first it looks like the pitcher was just lowering her hand after catching the ball. At :43, looks like a play.
Too bad the video does not show the pitcher the whole time or even a full shot.

[MD Longhorn]

There is no chance that's a "play".

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

There is no chance that's a "play".

I agree. The pitcher was simply holding the ball. IMO, no play was made on any of the scenarios which were offered where the umpire ruled the runner out.

OTOH, the effective point of the LBR was offered only in part. The LBR is in effect not only once the BR reaches 1B with the ball in the circle, but also if the BR is retired and the ball is in the circle.

And before someone picks a nit, "in the circle" refers to the pitcher having possession of the ball with both feet on or within the lines of the circle.

[jmkupka]

Thanks guys,
not to be repetitious, but if runner is halfway between 1st & 2nd and F1 raises the ball to shoulder level like she does at :43, I wouldn't ring up the runner.

Releasing her from standing on 1st could be a different story.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Thanks guys,
not to be repetitious, but if runner is halfway between 1st & 2nd and F1 raises the ball to shoulder level like she does at :43, I wouldn't ring up the runner.

Releasing her from standing on 1st could be a different story.

I'm not sure I understand your point. If you feel she's making a play when the runner is between first and second, then you should also judge she's making a play while the runner is on the base. It shouldn't matter where the runner was at the time the pitcher attempts a play.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Thanks guys,
not to be repetitious, but if runner is halfway between 1st & 2nd and F1 raises the ball to shoulder level like she does at :43, I wouldn't ring up the runner.

Releasing her from standing on 1st could be a different story.

If you are dropping your LBR for a runner between bases, why wouldn't you for a runner on a base. Either the pitcher made a play or she didn't.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Thanks guys,
not to be repetitious, but if runner is halfway between 1st & 2nd and F1 raises the ball to shoulder level like she does at :43, I wouldn't ring up the runner.

Releasing her from standing on 1st could be a different story.

Well... if the runner is halfway, then she had better have been moving one way or another before F1 started this slight movement of the ball... and assuming she was - and still was when the pitcher raises the ball, then of course you wouldn't rule her out.

That said, let me be contrary in saying that I DO believe there's a difference between a player on base and not on base ... here's why. Two reasons...

1) The reason "a play" releases the runner from the requirements of the LBR (however briefly) is that it forces a runner between bases to make a decision based on that play --- do I continue, or is this play going to require me to return the other way. The runner already on base is not forced to make a decision as they are already on the base. That small action taken by the pitcher is not going to require the runner to react.

2) This movement by the pitcher, with a runner standing on a base, is not the prelude to some other action. There's no reason for the runner to fear the ball being thrown to first, or to react to it. But given a runner OFF the base, this movement by the pitcher IS (most likely) the prelude to some other action designed to get that runner out... and that, after all, is what a "play" is, isn't it?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

There is no chance that's a "play".

I completely agree that this is not a play on the runner. The ball is simply lifted to shoulder level. There is no additional movement of the arm faking a throw to any base on this play, thus not attempted play.

Had she actually made a motion towards the base with the arm, faking a throw, then you have a "play" being made, and the LBR is no longer in effect.

This was a topic discussed at one of my association meetings this season. What constitutes a play being made to release a runner from the LBR. The agreement was there needs to be some sort of motion towards the base the runner is occupying, or the base she is going to for the LBR to be removed. In that portion of the video, the only motion I see is a lifting of the ball, which on its own is not a play in my opinion.

Given that this was a NFHS video, I would think the opinion of the NHFS is that a play must involve more than just lifting the ball up as well.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by jmkupka

Look Back Rule - YouTube

Please take a look at :40 sec. In the context of the rest of the video, this is described as a violation of the LBR.

I see this as a play by the pitcher, and if the runner was between bases I'd definitely drop the LBR. Since the runner is on 1st at this point, I wanted to hear your feedback. Does a "play" (assuming you consider this a play) release the runner from the base?

This video gave me the clearest answer about the LBR rule question I had from the game with the "experienced" umpire I worked with. The portion of the video in question from 16 to 30 seconds was almost a carbon copy of what he called out as the BU.