JUCO rule

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Your responsibility is to file a game report; and if the player returns in a later game you observe or officiate, you make note of it. The report should/must/will go to the NJCAA, Conference Commissioner, and the affected schools' administrators; if they violated an administrative rule that isn't a playing rule, it is their responsibility to deal with it, not the umpires.

In the NCAA, this is handled by Dee, and monitored by the conference; NAIA and NJCAA have their own process, let them handle it. The official scorebook and box score of each following game, mandated for standardization at each level, will document and support if they violated.

Steve is 100% right. Eject the violator and file the report. Umpire's don't suspend players. It is none of our business what happens after the report is filed. If the violator/team/coach violates whatever penalty is imposed, that's for other authorities to deal with.

Two additional thoughts:

1) Even though the sanctions are administrative, I wouldn't feel comfortable stepping onto the field if I didn't know the rules. Where's your copy?

2) What protocol was used when checking the bats?

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

2) What protocol was used when checking the bats?

Good question.

Assuming that the NCAA bat check protocol was followed....

If the non-approved bat mentioned in the OP was discovered by the umpires during the pre-game bat check, properly secured from either team by the PU, and if a batter was discovered in the batter's box with that same bat; you're now also ejecting the head coach in addition to the batter.

[shipwreck]

The correct bat check procedure was followed. The non approved bat was not discovered during the bat inspection. It must have been somewhere else when the other bats were checked. Dave

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

The correct bat check procedure was followed. The non approved bat was not discovered during the bat inspection. It must have been somewhere else when the other bats were checked. Dave

This brings up an interesting dilemma that I've constantly faced through the years. Teams dutifully set up their bats (and for ASA or NFHS play, their batting helmets as well) outside the dugout for us to inspect. But while I check those bats (and helmets), I will look inside and see more bats sticking out of bat bags. When I ask about them, I'm given the usual excuse that those are just batting practice bats that the girls use during pre-game warm-ups, and that they'll stay in the bat bags during the game.

Should we require the players to get rid of the bats completely? Often, the bats belong to visiting teams that have nowhere to adequately secure them during the game (there is no press box, the team's bus is gone, they have no fans in the bleachers to watch over them, etc.)

Do you force the issue, or believe the girls when they tell you those bats will stay in their bags?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Do you force the issue, or believe the girls when they tell you those bats will stay in their bags?

I don't believe any useful purpose would be served by forcing the non-existent issue. I wouldn't even ask about the other bats. They are showing you the bats they intend to use. They must use those bats.

If they show up at the plate with an illegal bat, they pay the penalty - it's that simple.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

...If they show up at the plate with an illegal bat, they pay the penalty - it's that simple.

This should be the be all and end all of this particular issue.

We (umpires) should not have to check bats and/or helmets prior to the game starting, IMHO.....

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Andy

We (umpires) should not have to check bats and/or helmets prior to the game starting, IMHO.....

I agree. In fact, our colleagues in NCAA baseball no longer have to check bats during pregame.

Unfortunately, NCAA softball still requires us to do so. I'm just trying to gain an understanding on which bats do we check. The six to twelve bats that are lined up outside the dugout are a no-brainer. It's the ten additional bats I see in batbags in the back of the dugout that the girls claim they use for warm-ups that I'm trying to understand if I should check them, or have them removed from the area.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

This should be the be all and end all of this particular issue.

We (umpires) should not have to check bats and/or helmets prior to the game starting, IMHO.....

Well, it is known as the Fram Oil Filter Scenario......you can check it now as a group or you can deal with it one at a time at the plate.

First time I worked an AF Championship and all bats were tested and marked and the players were programed to come to the plate and show you the mark every time up, made life easy, very easy for the umpire.

Try getting that done on a regular game of any organization at any level.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Manny A

This brings up an interesting dilemma that I've constantly faced through the years. Teams dutifully set up their bats (and for ASA or NFHS play, their batting helmets as well) outside the dugout for us to inspect. But while I check those bats (and helmets), I will look inside and see more bats sticking out of bat bags. When I ask about them, I'm given the usual excuse that those are just batting practice bats that the girls use during pre-game warm-ups, and that they'll stay in the bat bags during the game.

Should we require the players to get rid of the bats completely? Often, the bats belong to visiting teams that have nowhere to adequately secure them during the game (there is no press box, the team's bus is gone, they have no fans in the bleachers to watch over them, etc.)

Do you force the issue, or believe the girls when they tell you those bats will stay in their bags?

For ASA or NFHS, I am not forcing the issue (short of a Qualifier, National in ASA, State Championship in NFHS). There is no absolute rule that non-approved bats cannot be in the dugout; no rule actually applies until a batter enters the batter's box with a non-approved bat. Better to not have them where they can be accidently used, but the rule is what it is. Bat checks are a courtesy, anyway; it is still and always the batter's (and coache's) responsibility, not the umpires'.

In any and all collegiate levels, there is a rule (3.3.2) that no bats (other than approved warm-up bats) may be in any team area nor on the field that are not approved for use in the game. Even fungo bats (that aren't one piece wooden bats) must be removed and not used for team warmups once the umpires enter the field. And we are told these are professional coaches whom we are to treat as professionals; and that cuts both ways.

So, I'm sorry, but no option, Coach; your responsibility to know the rule, the effect, the result, and you are responsible for the actions of your team. Remove any and all bats that you are not submitting for game use approval. Your problem if you didn't make appropriate arrangements.

Refusal to do so is an ejection, and we still don't play until your team complies, forfeit if you don't; and an incident report.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Remove any and all bats that you are not submitting for game use approval.

Steve, are you saying that we are supposed to inspect even the warm-up bats that players may end up using in the on-deck circle?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Steve, are you saying that we are supposed to inspect even the warm-up bats that players may end up using in the on-deck circle?

NCAA rules (3.4) do not allow illegal, altered, or nonapproved bats in the on-deck circle. Only approved bats, or non-altered one piece wooden bats (softball or baseball). No other "warm-up" bats or devices.

So, there is no excuse for any other bat to be in any team area. Not in the dugout, bullpen, on-deck circle. Just those checked and accounted for in the team's bat list for that game (3.3.2).

Keeps it simple and clear. And 3.3.2 makes it clear the coach is the one responsible for the team's bat list.