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Old Wed Mar 20, 2013, 07:21am
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Question JUCO rule

I do some JUCO ball and was wondering on this. If a player is discovered they used a non-approved bat, they are declared out and ejected. My question is, do they have to sit out the next game also since the JUCO rules say they do after an ejection. Or is this for only certain types of ejections? Dave
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Old Wed Mar 20, 2013, 07:36am
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As far as I know, JUCO plays by the NCAA rule book. And there are no distinctions between ejections for different violations in NCAA play. An ejection is an ejection.
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Old Wed Mar 20, 2013, 07:57am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
As far as I know, JUCO plays by the NCAA rule book. And there are no distinctions between ejections for different violations in NCAA play. An ejection is an ejection.
Don't forget:

13.2 Physical Contact with an Umpire or Opponent
Any threat of physical intimidation or harm, including pushing, shoving, spitting,
kicking, throwing at or attempting to make aggressive physical contact, or use
of equipment in a combative manner, shall not be tolerated and is considered
fighting.

EFFECT—The perpetrator shall be ejected and then suspended from
the institution’s next two scheduled and played contests in a
traditional season (spring). For a second offense by an individual
in the same season, the individual shall serve a four-game
suspension. For a third offense by an individual in the same
season, the individual shall be suspended for the remainder of the
season, including postseason competition (if applicable).....
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Old Wed Mar 20, 2013, 08:06am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topper View Post
Don't forget:

13.2 Physical Contact with an Umpire or Opponent
Any threat of physical intimidation or harm, including pushing, shoving, spitting,
kicking, throwing at or attempting to make aggressive physical contact, or use
of equipment in a combative manner, shall not be tolerated and is considered
fighting.

EFFECT—The perpetrator shall be ejected and then suspended from
the institution’s next two scheduled and played contests in a
traditional season (spring). For a second offense by an individual
in the same season, the individual shall serve a four-game
suspension. For a third offense by an individual in the same
season, the individual shall be suspended for the remainder of the
season, including postseason competition (if applicable).....
Yeah, I forgot about that one.
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Old Wed Mar 20, 2013, 08:43am
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So is this correct? In JUCO the player has to it out the next game after an ejection, but not in NCAA? My friend was working a JUCO tourney last year and was shown this in the JUCO rules or by-laws. NCAA doesn't mention sitting out the next game as far as I can see. Dave
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Old Wed Mar 20, 2013, 09:48am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
So is this correct? In JUCO the player has to it out the next game after an ejection, but not in NCAA? My friend was working a JUCO tourney last year and was shown this in the JUCO rules or by-laws. NCAA doesn't mention sitting out the next game as far as I can see. Dave
I've never seen a copy of the NJCAA Handbook & Casebook. According to the NJCAA website, they cover by-laws, eligibility requirements, etc. etc., for all the JUCO sports, and are distributed only to the President and the Athletic Director of each junior college this is a member of the NJCAA.

It's entirely conceivable that the H&C does require a one-game suspension following an ejection in softball. But since I've never been issued a H&C, I can't verify that.
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Old Wed Mar 20, 2013, 10:24am
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For JUCO play here, we use the NCAA rule book.

The JUCO conference has it's own bylaws and any person ejected is required to sit out the next scheduled game, including the second game of a double header, if the ejection happened in the first game.
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Old Wed Mar 20, 2013, 10:47am
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Same here for the Region I work.
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Old Wed Mar 20, 2013, 11:31am
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Your responsibility is to file a game report; and if the player returns in a later game you observe or officiate, you make note of it. The report should/must/will go to the NJCAA, Conference Commissioner, and the affected schools' administrators; if they violated an administrative rule that isn't a playing rule, it is their responsibility to deal with it, not the umpires.

In the NCAA, this is handled by Dee, and monitored by the conference; NAIA and NJCAA have their own process, let them handle it. The official scorebook and box score of each following game, mandated for standardization at each level, will document and support if they violated.
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Old Thu Mar 21, 2013, 05:36am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
For JUCO play here, we use the NCAA rule book.

The JUCO conference has it's own bylaws and any person ejected is required to sit out the next scheduled game, including the second game of a double header, if the ejection happened in the first game.
I'll just throw in a "same here" to cover the area I work.
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Old Thu Mar 21, 2013, 06:59am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Your responsibility is to file a game report; and if the player returns in a later game you observe or officiate, you make note of it. The report should/must/will go to the NJCAA, Conference Commissioner, and the affected schools' administrators; if they violated an administrative rule that isn't a playing rule, it is their responsibility to deal with it, not the umpires.

In the NCAA, this is handled by Dee, and monitored by the conference; NAIA and NJCAA have their own process, let them handle it. The official scorebook and box score of each following game, mandated for standardization at each level, will document and support if they violated.
Steve is 100% right. Eject the violator and file the report. Umpire's don't suspend players. It is none of our business what happens after the report is filed. If the violator/team/coach violates whatever penalty is imposed, that's for other authorities to deal with.

Two additional thoughts:

1) Even though the sanctions are administrative, I wouldn't feel comfortable stepping onto the field if I didn't know the rules. Where's your copy?

2) What protocol was used when checking the bats?
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Old Thu Mar 21, 2013, 09:49am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EsqUmp View Post
2) What protocol was used when checking the bats?
Good question.

Assuming that the NCAA bat check protocol was followed....

If the non-approved bat mentioned in the OP was discovered by the umpires during the pre-game bat check, properly secured from either team by the PU, and if a batter was discovered in the batter's box with that same bat; you're now also ejecting the head coach in addition to the batter.
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 08:50am
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The correct bat check procedure was followed. The non approved bat was not discovered during the bat inspection. It must have been somewhere else when the other bats were checked. Dave
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 11:57am
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Originally Posted by shipwreck View Post
The correct bat check procedure was followed. The non approved bat was not discovered during the bat inspection. It must have been somewhere else when the other bats were checked. Dave
This brings up an interesting dilemma that I've constantly faced through the years. Teams dutifully set up their bats (and for ASA or NFHS play, their batting helmets as well) outside the dugout for us to inspect. But while I check those bats (and helmets), I will look inside and see more bats sticking out of bat bags. When I ask about them, I'm given the usual excuse that those are just batting practice bats that the girls use during pre-game warm-ups, and that they'll stay in the bat bags during the game.

Should we require the players to get rid of the bats completely? Often, the bats belong to visiting teams that have nowhere to adequately secure them during the game (there is no press box, the team's bus is gone, they have no fans in the bleachers to watch over them, etc.)

Do you force the issue, or believe the girls when they tell you those bats will stay in their bags?
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Old Tue Mar 26, 2013, 12:12pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Do you force the issue, or believe the girls when they tell you those bats will stay in their bags?
I don't believe any useful purpose would be served by forcing the non-existent issue. I wouldn't even ask about the other bats. They are showing you the bats they intend to use. They must use those bats.

If they show up at the plate with an illegal bat, they pay the penalty - it's that simple.
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