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Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 02:17pm
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Worked a juco men's game last night. Visiting team jumps out to a 10-0 lead in the first two minutes. Halftime the lead is 11 and we call a total of six fouls in the first half. I called four or five myself. My one partner didn't call a single foul in the first half and we asked him for half of his check when we got to the locker room.

First minute of the second half I have a 3-point shooter go up and a defender steps in, not letting the shooter come down to the floor. It was pretty close in my mind -- did the shooter return to the floor first or was the shooter still airborne? I didn't hesitate in giving the shooter three shots -- I really did have doubt and I didn't want defenders launching themselves at shooters the rest of the game. The whistle was quite delayed as I wanted to see the entire play before even calling this a foul. I thought it was a good, appropriate slow whistle -- but naturally, the shooter's teammate was in the process of rebounding the ball as I blew the whistle.

I went tableside after reporting the foul and I found the visiting coach in my pocket. Amusing comments such as "you're still in the locker room" and "you need to get with it" ensued. Without turning to look directly at him, I told him that I'm more than happy to discuss any call, but if he's going to start in with stuff like that he's going to be getting a steady diet of silence.

Natually, I rode tableside trail-center in front of his bench most of the second half and the foul counts started to go up, lopsided against the visiting coach. I couldn't help but smile when he started in with the same 3-0, 4-0, 5-0 crap we get in HS games. Never even acknowledged him as he wasn't loud or overly boisterous or demonstrative -- just in my ear.

The one comment I probably regret this morning is when he started whining that we had only called one foul against the home team in the first 30 minutes of the game. At that point I (again without turning around) remarked, "Actually, we called three on both teams in the first half." Actually, he got quiet for a while. Maybe it was a good comment.

Later, while I was the center right in front of the visiting coach, a home player rebounded the ball. I noted a slight bump from behind as the home player went up and as he came down he was sufficiently off balance and he went to the floor. At this point I stepped in and called the foul on the bump. "Way to bail him out" was the comment I got. I did take the time this time to say something like "You and I both saw the bump and we both know that he doesn't go down without that bump from behind."

This went on most of the second half and the home team slowly crept back into the game, even taking a brief lead with about two minutes left. It was clear the visiting team's coach was taken out of the game (I found out later that my one partner had to whack him last season and that he ALWAYS spends most of the game working the officials) -- even though he still had five TOs (4 fulls and 1 30) remaining in the second half, he never used any.

Home team still lost -- wide open 3 to win at the buzzer clanged off and they lost by 2.

What's the point of this? I don't know -- I'm thrilled that the coach didn't take me out of my game, but I wonder if I should've stepped on his nonsense earlier.

Anyone else have such great fun last night? I certainly didn't do it for the money -- after a 75 mile drive (one way) and dinner for me and the wife on the way home I didn't have a lot left from the $80 check.

--Rich
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Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 03:45pm
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I'm glad you related this experience, thanks. It's helpful to hear examples of dealing with coaches. And your situations were great examples of & reminder to have a "patient whistle"
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Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 04:32pm
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Rich,

I had a visiting V coach like this a couple of weeks ago.

His team built an early, sizable lead but throughout the entire game, the H team chipped away, came back and led with about 2 minutes left, and ended up winning by 3.

He was rather fine in the 1st half, but at the beginning of the 4th, still up by 6, was clearly not focusing on coaching, and rather was focused on what my P and I was or was not doing. (I had already tried to help him re-focus a coupla times with quiet reminders.)

I double-tweeted, told him that he has just received his official warning. I then told my P that the blue coach has been warned. Of course, since he was far away, every knew the coached had been warned.

He actually started to coach again, and made a good game of it all.

Was there a better way to deal with this guy? Maybe. But my way worked. Point is, I've been reffing long enough to know when a coach is heading towards crossing a line, and I try to deal with it before the line is crossed.
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Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 05:19pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee

I double-tweeted, told him that he has just received his official warning. I then told my P that the blue coach has been warned. Of course, since he was far away, every knew the coached had been warned.

I'll bite. What exactly is the "official warning" and where can I find it in the rule book?

Or did you mean a "warning by an official"?
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Old Sat Dec 11, 2004, 06:02pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee
I double-tweeted, told him that he has just received his official warning
I guess that's good...if it works for you.
But, what happens now when the other coach starts chipping...does that coach get an "official warning" also...whistle and all?
If not...why not? We like to stay consistent don't we?

For me that might work in a REC league or something...but for the V H.S. games...if a coach needs a warning he will get one without all the fanfare. If it comes down to the whistle being blown and everybody's full attention...it might as well be for the "big whack".

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Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 01:48am
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee

I double-tweeted, told him that he has just received his official warning. I then told my P that the blue coach has been warned. Of course, since he was far away, every knew the coached had been warned.

I'll bite. What exactly is the "official warning" and where can I find it in the rule book?

Or did you mean a "warning by an official"?
Like I said, it could have been handled any number of ways, but he shut up 100% after that. I guess I read him pretty well.
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Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 01:55am
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Quote:
Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:
Originally posted by JugglingReferee
I double-tweeted, told him that he has just received his official warning
I guess that's good...if it works for you.
But, what happens now when the other coach starts chipping...does that coach get an "official warning" also...whistle and all?
If not...why not? We like to stay consistent don't we?

For me that might work in a REC league or something...but for the V H.S. games...if a coach needs a warning he will get one without all the fanfare. If it comes down to the whistle being blown and everybody's full attention...it might as well be for the "big whack".

Neither coach obtain an advantage over another. Luckily, the other coach is known to be the quiet type.

I learned afterwards that the V coach has previously been suspended from the league. It wouldn't look good if he trots back home being T'd up yet again. To me, it's about avoidance.

Interestingly enough, there seems to be this aura surrounding the officiating in HS games here. There is a group of about 15 officials that I never ever see get harassed by the HS coaches in my county. IOW, there is a good working relationship.
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Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 03:06pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

I went tableside after reporting the foul and I found the visiting coach in my pocket.

--Rich
Rich, I don't understand this. It seems to me that when you call a shooting foul in the second half you should end up in front of the coach of the shooting team. Whas the coach out of his box? Even if it was after the free throws you should have been the new lead. Did this occur after the free throws and a rotation?
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Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 04:38pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by tomegun
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser

I went tableside after reporting the foul and I found the visiting coach in my pocket.

--Rich
Rich, I don't understand this. It seems to me that when you call a shooting foul in the second half you should end up in front of the coach of the shooting team. Whas the coach out of his box? Even if it was after the free throws you should have been the new lead. Did this occur after the free throws and a rotation?
Nothing too sinister -- he wanted an explanation and since the whistle was pretty late I felt he was entitled to one. So maybe it would be better to say that we met halfway. Once I determined he was going to rag me regardless, I kinda shrugged my shoulders and went back to the trail. Nice pickup -- I guess I wasn't thorough enough -- but I'm willing to slide up closer on a multiple shot foul to discuss the call with the coach if I don't think it's going to be too volatile of a situation.

I'm not even sure if the boxes were marked, to be honest.

Back to 2-whistle on Tuesday. I'm spoiled.

--Rich
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Old Sun Dec 12, 2004, 05:30pm
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It's been my experience that some juco is slightly better than HS V. Not always, I've worked really some great juco games. But generally they are hard games to work.

I opened up this year with a new juco coach. First coupla calls he gives me "that was a late whistle!" BS. I can live with this crap from the new ncaa players early on but not from the coaches. We were barely 5 minutes into the game when I gave him a loud "that's enough coach!". By the end of the game he was down 20 and my best pal (that sound is me patting myself on the back ).

Came to learn later that this was the guy's first juco game after a pretty succesful HS career.

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